Template talk:Nihongo

Template:Nihongo is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories. Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. Functionality of the template can be checked using test cases.

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Looking at an article like Hikikomori, the term "Hikikomori" is in a significantly larger font size than surrounding text, which looks really unprofessional. Is there a good reason for this? (I'm on Safari on a Mac, in case that matters.) Toadspike [Talk] 21:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For {{nihongo}}, the ordering of parameters is:

{{Nihongo|<english>|<kanji/kana>|<rōmaji>|<extra>

That mess at the start of Hikikomori is:

{{nihongo||ひきこもり {{lang|en|or}} 引きこもり| '''Hikikomori'''| {{small|[[Literal translation|lit.]] }}"pulling inward, being confined"|lead=yes}}

Hikikomori (Japanese: ひきこもり or 引きこもり; lit. "pulling inward, being confined")

<span title="Hepburn transliteration"><i lang="ja-Latn">'''Hikikomori'''</i></span><span style="font-weight: normal"> ([[Japanese language|Japanese]]: <span lang="ja">ひきこもり <span title="English-language text"><span lang="en">or</span></span> 引きこもり</span>; <span style="font-size: 85%;">[[Literal translation|lit.]]&nbsp;</span>"pulling inward, being confined")</span>

In the final rendering, 'Hikikomori' is marked up as ja-Latn. There have been times when editors have complained that {{nihongo}} or it underlying Module:Lang is doing something funny with fonts. Neither of these apply fonts; that is the responsibility of your browser

Does what you are seeing look like this:

<i lang="ja">'''Hikikomori'''</i>

Hikikomori

With my browser (chrome win 10), 'Hikikomori' isin the above example is rendered with a finer slightly smaller font. Some browsers don't properly distinguish between the lang="ja" and lang="ja-Latn" html attributes.

Also, the gloss in <extra> should be using single quotes.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation. If I understand correctly, we're sticking with this because it's correct markup, and browsers just happen to display it in an ugly way? Toadspike [Talk] 09:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I request a method to specify the separator used between the Japanese text and extra parameter for use in the lead paragraphs, as it currently is not possible. take the following text:

Satoru Iwata (Japanese: 岩田 聡, Hepburn: Iwata Satoru; December 6, 1959 – July 11, 2015) was ...

the correct formatting would be with a semicolon, not a comma, after the Hepburn romanization and before the date.

Satoru Iwata (Japanese: 岩田 聡, Hepburn: Iwata Satoru; December 6, 1959 – July 11, 2015) was ...

one simply option would be to automatically change it to a semicolon whenever |lead=yes is passed. Juwan (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am here to request the same thing: on the Nintendo Switch 2 page, the intro ought to have a semicolon in this template after the Hepburn field:

Japanese: ニンテンドースイッチ2, Hepburn: Nintendō Suitchi Tsū, Nintendo branded the console in Japan using its English name.

Brad (talk) 20:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

taking a peek at the code, this would be done by modifying the formatting table, as shown below:

local formatting = {
    -- <5p4n> and </5p4n>: place holders for font-weight style spans; akin to stripmarkers, replaced  before function returns
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {extra}}, 												-- 1 - (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {romanized}},												-- 2 - romanized
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, extra}},									-- 3 - romanized (extra)
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {native}},												-- 4 - native
	{'<5p4n>(%s, %s)', {native, extra}},									-- 5 - (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, native}},									-- 6 - romanized (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {romanized, native, extra}},						-- 7 - romanized (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {english}},												-- 8 - english
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, extra}},									-- 9 - english (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, romanized}},								-- 10 - english (romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, romanized, extra}},						-- 11 - english (romanized, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, native}},									-- 12 - english (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, native, extra}},						-- 13 - english (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s)', {english, native, romanized}},					-- 14 - english (native, romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s, %s)', {english, native, romanized, extra}},			-- 15 - english (native, romanized, extra)
}

to the code below:

local formatting = {
    -- <5p4n> and </5p4n>: place holders for font-weight style spans; akin to stripmarkers, replaced  before function returns
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {extra}}, 												-- 1 - (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {romanized}},												-- 2 - romanized
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, extra}},									-- 3 - romanized (extra)
	{'<5p4n>(%s)', {native}},												-- 4 - native
	{'<5p4n>(%s; %s)', {native, extra}},									-- 5 - (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {romanized, native}},									-- 6 - romanized (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {romanized, native, extra}},						-- 7 - romanized (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n>', {english}},												-- 8 - english
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, extra}},									-- 9 - english (extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, romanized}},								-- 10 - english (romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, romanized, extra}},						-- 11 - english (romanized, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s)', {english, native}},									-- 12 - english (native)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, native, extra}},						-- 13 - english (native, extra)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s; %s)', {english, native, romanized}},					-- 14 - english (native, romanized)
	{'%s<5p4n> (%s, %s; %s)', {english, native, romanized, extra}},			-- 15 - english (native, romanized, extra)
}

Juwan (talk) 02:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

pinging @Trappist the monk as basically the sole contributor to this template after forking Juwan (talk) 02:04, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Have you sandboxed this? There are four tables like the one above; if we are to change one, ought we not change the others? Each of the supported templates has its own ~/testcases.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:52, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't, thank you for reminding me of that. Juwan (talk) 15:37, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Trappist the monk sandboxed at Module:Nihongo/sandbox. Juwan (talk) 06:54, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not change established coding style.

You haven't finished – unless {{nihongo}} and {{nihongo krt}} should not use semicolon separators. If they are different for a reason, that reason must be documented.

Update the inline comments to match the new punctuation.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Brad, I see you reopened this request on 7 June. Is there any update? As far as I see, Juwan unfortunately "pulled out" before addressing Trappist the monk's notes. Would you like to complete the work? I'd do that myself, but per previous discussion it's not clear whether all occurrences should use semicolon separators or not. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 02:59, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

it's not clear whether all occurrences should use semicolon separators or not. If that is a true statement then it appears that there is no consensus for this change so I have disabled the edit request.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:03, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not asking for a change, I'm asking for an option between a comma and a semicolon. Right now the template does not fully comply with WP:MOS. -- Brad (talk) 19:36, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not asking for a change, I'm asking for an option between a comma and a semicolon. Isn't the addition of a separator selector switch a change to the template/module code?

Right now the template does not fully comply with WP:MOS. The en.wiki manual of style encompasses some 160 pages. With which of those pages does this template fail to comply?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:21, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An optional way to replace the colon with a semicolon would result in no changes to existing templates.

As noted above, from Nintendo Switch 2:

Japanese: ニンテンドースイッチ2, Hepburn: Nintendō Suitchi Tsū, Nintendo branded the console in Japan using its English name.

Right now the text after the Hepburn romanization is separated by a comma, which should be a semicolon in this case (and all others that come to mind; anything not in the format Language: Text should be separated by a semicolon). See MOS:SEMICOLON and Comma splice. -- Brad (talk) 01:31, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Brad: I finally took time to delve into this issue and update Module:Nihongo/sandbox myself. Please check the resulting templates ({{Nihongo/sandbox}}, {{Nihongo3/sandbox}}, {{Nihongo krt/sandbox}}, {{Nihongo foot/sandbox}}) and let me know if that's ok. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 11:01, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Est. 2021 Awesome, thanks so much! I quickly tested these out and they look good to me. This is exactly what I had in mind. -- Brad (talk) 23:21, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Juwan and Brad:  Completed. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 00:11, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Est. 2021 thank you very much! Juwan (talk) 16:58, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to Module:Nihongo has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Before it was replaced with a mudule, it was used {{yesno}} to check the lead ({{#ifeq:{{yesno|{{{lead|}}}}}|yes), so it wasn't case-sensitive and values like |lead=y or |lead=true would work. Now, it'll only work if it is |lead=yes.

I can't say for sure, but there may have some pages created before the module implementation that use |lead=Yes or any other expression supported by {{yesno}}. Vinickw‍✉ 14:31, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, this was implemented in Special:Diff/1271112797. —⁠andrybak (talk) 01:33, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the reason for additional indirection for tag = 'ja' four times in the config. Presumably, it must always be exactly 'ja' for Module:Nihongo (see Module:Lang/data). I think it can be dropped: Special:Diff/1286458483/1286504678. For more clarity, a named string constant can be used instead of a literal: Special:Diff/1286458483/1286504838.

If we are to leave this additional indirection through cfg, then I propose using it more consistently: Special:Diff/1286458483/1286459081. —⁠andrybak (talk) 09:12, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've read through module's history more carefully and found where tag in cfg came from. The module used to also support templates for Chinese until Special:Diff/1245874224. —⁠andrybak (talk) 09:15, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, because of {{hanyu}}. In reality, all of cfg, err_cat, and err_msg tables can be replaced with simpler code. None of those tables are required any longer and the cfg tables are mostly redundant to each other.

But the module works as-is, so I set it aside until some sort of significant change to the module was needed.

Using explicit ja language tags in the code seems to me to be best because this template/module is ja-specific. As for the other data in the tables, those should be kept more-or-less where they are so that users of the module on other-language wikis only have to translate those strings in a single place.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:55, 20 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]