This does not work in Wikipedia. Frankly, it may be worthwile to change the software so that every external link automatically opens in a new window. You wouldn't want to lose the focus of that Wikipedia page, would you? JFW | T@lk 20:39, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have seen this topic mentioned here and there on Wikipedia, but wonder if there is a recommended standard for this situation. I would like to know whether the "External links" header should be in singular or plural form when there is only one external link. I have come across many articles that use the singular form in this situation, and fewer that use the plural form. Personally, I have been using singular form, but I think that the plural form might be better for consistancy's sake, as well as encourage the future addition of more external links.
What makes those work is that, in general, countries have some number of official languages, and years have some number of people who died that year. The fact that those two examples happen to only have a single entry doesn't matter much. It's the same thing with "External links". In general, there are some number of external links for an article. On occasion, an article will have exactly one, but that doesn't mean the name of the section should change.
There's another reason, that that's because sections of articles are linkable, and you don't want bookmarks to go stale. Let's say I save a bookmark (or make a wikilink, or deep-link from another web site) to Elbonian toenail clippings#External link and then later somebody comes along and adds another one and changes the section title to External links. My bookmark/wikilink/deep-link is now broken. We get away with renaming articles because a rename generates a redirect to keep old links from going stale. No such mechanism exists with section titles --RoySmith 21:34, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
If there are relative external links to the article what are the rules regarding them? In addition what are the rules regarding removing other links. It appears that links are just getting removed is there a way to report this? [email protected] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.66.3 (talk • contribs) 16:08, 9 February 2006
If the subject of the article is an author, is it inappropriate to link to the author's articles? This is the article I'm referring to. — goethean ॐ 17:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I would like to propose adding the following to the "What should not be linked to" section: "If the domain is not one of the top 100,000 websites, as determined by the Alexa Internet ranking, then the content on that site may be indistinguishable from original research. Links to websites without significant traffic should be discouraged when alternative resources are available." Any objections/feedback/thoughts? --Arcadian 12:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I propose changing "Sites that primarily exist to sell products.", listed under "What should not be linked to", to:
I was just about to revert Findbgs's adding of a tour operator site to Grand Canyon, [[1]], and refer them to the External links guidelines. Though, the guidelines don't explicitly include "sites that primarily exist to sell services".
Seems logical to me to make this change, but I want to suggest it here first. —--Aude (talk | contribs) 04:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Is there a policy concerning external links that contain relevant content but also include affiliate links (e.g., Amazon Associates links to products)? This could be construed as borderline linkspam, especially if the link is being added by the website owner. --Muchness 06:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm tired of getting into the same long drawn-out discussion every time I remove fan sites and promotional links from an article, and somebody reverts and says "external links are useful, WP:NOT only says that links shouldn't dwarf an article and these don't, I like links to forums and fan sites and related products, I don't want to have to use an open directory because those have crap links." Until the guidelines are rewritten to be more clear against these things, I could use some suggestions for effective ways to respond to these arguments. - Brian Kendig 15:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Is a link to a highly relevant MP3 a violation of Wikipedia's rules? In this case, I am referring to a link to a radio interview given by the subject of an article. It was removed because the link required an MP3 player. Thoughts? 38.2.108.125 19:22, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. See my other comment with respect to Java, Flash, etc. However this isn't to say that I don't also see other potential problems. Particularly in the case of MP3s, there may be intellectual property issues. Would it be defensible to link to a MP3 of a substantial reading from a popular novel such as Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, or a copy of the single of Good Vibrations? MP3s of works released on free licenses or released into the public domain, where relevant to the subject, should always be acceptable, however, though I would prefer that local copies of such works be uploaded to Wikipedia or to Commons for this purpose. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the external applications clause should be replaced with a follow-up note, something like: "Sites that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content should only be linked to if they qualify under the 'What should be linked to' criteria and no HTML alternatives are available." --Muchness 14:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I boldly added "your own website" into things not to link to. Please review and revert if you believe this is not widely accepted as consensus already. Hipocrite - «Talk» 17:01, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
On what should not be linked to, there was a general clause about "Sites that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content."
Since we do have articles about websites whose purpose is the showcasing of such media (which are not really regarded as exotic), I have appeneded: "unless the subject is about items using those media." I don't see the point of forbidding reasonable links to the subject of an article on the grounds that the subject is not HTML. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:05, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
One query. On the websites for some celebrities who merit inclusion into Wikipedia there is 'Adult Content.' Should we avoid linking to external websites where there would be adult content or is it deemed not suitable in these cases for an encyclopaedia? Ben W Bell 13:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
I think this policy should state clearly that the "external links" section is NOT to be used for references. At present many articles are unreferenced, with some potentially relevant material in the external links section (but nobody knows which link is actually a reference). JFW | T@lk 20:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
What are other editors' views regarding cases like this (leaving aside the absence of information about the links)? My view was that the one link to an index page was enough, and that four links to the same site was excessive; the editor concerned replaced the links, as you see. Has this been discussed before? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
A long-running dispute at Double degree concerns a list of examples. The article concerns a specific sort of degree programme, largely confined to Universities havign a U.K.-style degree system; many editors have found this concept difficult to grasp, and have confused it with other sorts of programme (such as a credits sytem, degrees taken in sequence, etc.). I added a short list of links to university pages concerning genuine examples of the subject. One editor insists (against every other contributor to the discussion) that this is "linkspam", and keeps deleting it. Discussants are divided over whether the list should stay; I think that there's a small majority in favour, though I may have miscalculated. Do people here think that this sort of list is acceptable?
My main reason for keeping it is that the information provided by the Web pages concerned is too detailed to be appropriate for the Wikipedia article, while at the same time giving the reader an idea both of the variety of approaches and of the type of programme involved. The list is clearly labelled as a sample, so that no suggestion is made that these courses are special or recommended (though, again, some editors seem unable to grasp this).
If anyone here has a good reason to remove the list, I'll be happy to do so; so far no good reason has been given, but the debate (largely because of one editor who seems emotionally involved with the need to remove the list won't give up) drags on. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:48, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Take for instance link proposed for the ontological argument Wikipedia entry. The website appears to be a owned by a single individual, Raul Corazzon. Despite its ownership, it contains no actual vanity content and so would it be right to call it a "personal web page"? Or can this be considered a valid external link? To me it almost seems like a fallacy to reject it based on the number of people who own the website, particularly since it contains some useful information for researchers. --Wade A. Tisthammer 22:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:External_links&diff=35750081&oldid=35432649
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:External_links&diff=35753194&oldid=35752220
80.229.160.150 01:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Fine, goodbye then. 80.229.160.150 01:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Does the prescription of ok-to-add for fan sites apply to also Foe sites? By Foe sites I mean a site which has negative views of the subject of the article.
As a specific case, is it allowed to include the link A collection of materials by detractors dedicated to criticism of Derek Smart in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Smart ?
Arguments for are that it is the number one site for a google query of the article's subject and that it contains a large amount of information.
Does a high google page rank for a search reflect its notability?
Arguments against are that the information is mainly usenet posts and private emails and is therefore non-verifiable and also that the author seems like an internet stalker.
Does non-verifiability disqualify an external link.
Note that the http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/ site is very one-sided and consists mainly of excerpts (with headers) of usenet posting and private emails with the site author's comments and conclusions. The conclusions do appear (to me at least) to follow from the referenced postings, except perhaps for the author's attempt at psychoanalysis.
Note, this specific instance was under mediation until one of the participants withdrew with no consensus, but a general opinion on the propriety of external links to foesites would be appreciated. And requirements that would qualify/disqualify a site from being and external link would be appreciated.
"Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link. "
One of the problems which seems to always raise tempers on Wikipedia - and one of the most-often-discussed problems on this talk page - is External Links. Specifically, I keep on finding articles with twenty links to fan sites and reviews and discussion forums, and when I delete them, I often get angrily reverted by people who say that was useful! I don't want to have to go find them on my own! In the interests of rewriting the guidelines to more clearly state that Wikipedia is not a place to link fan sites, let me ask first: are there any circumstances you can think of, or examples you can remember, for when an article's External Links section should link to anything more than one or two fan sites or discussion boards? - Brian Kendig 15:24, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Unless anyone feels that Wikipedia's guidelines on linking to fan sites should be vague, I'm going to go back through the proposals that other people have submitted here and try to come up with a new "Fan sites" section to add to the guidelines. - Brian Kendig 13:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed on Lilith that somebody came and changed an external cite link to a Bible verse from one odd-sounding outside URL to another... and it got me thinking. Seems to me that Bible verses have no good reason to be linked to an external site at all, and that it's all too easy for spammers just putting up the verses to go around and put in links, or fight over them. I don;t really think these things need clickable links, as it's easy enough for someone to look up a verse on its own, but that if we do have a link it should go to either a Wikipedia article or like some of wikibooks sort of thing and not www.bibleversesbysomespammer.cc -- has this been discussed anywhere? Should it be written up? Do we need to go undo a bumch of spam? DreamGuy 11:59, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
please consider providing a link >thehagertwins.com< on your Hee Haw info page. It has a lot of content that those who are fan's (and why would they look it up at Wikipedia?) would find very entertaining and informative.
Thank you.
Hee Haw Cast Members,
Jim and Jon Hager The Hager Twins
Is there ever a time when a fanlisting is appropriate in an external link? I can't see that it would ever add anything to an article. All these have ever done is disappoint me by turning up when I was looking for more information.
These don't appear to be covered under any of the (currently six) points under "What should be linked to." I'd like to consider modifying point 3 under "Maybe OK to add" to say:
Yes? No? Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 19:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a discussion going on Template talk:Languageicon about what style the language indicator should be. I suppose there may also be room to debate whether template is even desireable. -- Netoholic @ 22:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
"Standards are just as high, or even higher, for material linked to externally as it is for content added internally. Pages that are factually inaccurate or which contain unverified original research should not be linked to. (See WP:RS for further information on this guideline.)" Andries 06:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I question Andries motive in rewriting the original standard as it appears that Andries is rewriting the standard to promote his POV on controversial articles:
View Reference One
View Sathya Sai Baba Article
SSS108 06:43, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
User:Npgallery has been systematically adding external links to [[3]]nationalparksgallery.com to every article about a national park on wikipedia. The site is suspicious, it has no links to actual national park sites, just a large amount of links to adverstising and seems to be run by a sporting goods group. The pictures are low resolution, and there is no clear identifier of the owner of the page. The user name even makes me suspicious. Additionally, whenever the link it removed, the user cries Revert Vandalism! and has made some false claims about another user questioning him. His talk page is beginning to be a discussion about this as more than one wikiperson is suspicious of this activity. Can anyone with more experience weigh in on this one? The link is nominally valuable, but it may be a site designed specifically to link to online stores and if someone else has some super secret high tech snooping ideas to figure out the true nature of the page and the owner, or if these should be included it would be appreciated. Oh and now my questioning of the link has prompted some personal attacks on me too. Please help. Pschemp | Talk 07:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I have blocked User:Npgallery for 24 hours not only for spamming after giving multiple warnings, but for disruption by wasting the time of Wikipedians by trying to argue that his spam is justifiable. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 21:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
An anon IP changed the wording from one site to a few, I can't see any firm decision on the talk page for this and i think the wording needs to be made clearer as fan site lists just get longer and longer. Perhaps something like "As few sites as possible linking to only the most informative" or "only linking to more than one fan site when none of them are clearly larger or more informative". Perhaps something could be said for fan-made wikis? If theres a large informative fan-wiki on say wikicities I would consider it a seperate case from fan sites, but perhaps it should just be said that established fan-wikis are the preferred fan site link? Discordance 18:13, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
The guideline, "Articles about any organization, person, or other entity should link to their official site, if they have one", is useless. Not all official sites are appropriate for viewing. Not all of them are factually accurate either. Ergo, the guideline is void. Further explanations are available. Marcus2 | Talk 17:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I've been contributing to WP for a few months, and lately I've been using it for tasks that I would formerly have Googled. The external links from articles can yield relevant information far more readily than an ordinary search, cutting out the need to click on sites containing minimal info. Is WP the search engine of the future?--shtove 22:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I am in a debate right now with someone who felt the need to create a template to link his favorite eight fansites from all 72 articles about his favorite anime. I believe that we really need a better-defined policy regarding links to fansites. To this end I've drawn up some rough ideas at User:Brian Kendig/Fansite links; would you please visit there and give me some ideas on the Talk page for how it could be refined? - Brian Kendig 15:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Is there a way to exclude the said image from showing up after EL's? Are there any templates that do this? I am just curious because my username looks ugly with that image after the link to make a new comment on my talk page. Thanks. --J@red [T]/[+] 00:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Articles on outdoor activities get a lot of links such as "multiuse trails in Anchorage, Alaska." These links are very useful for some readers, but completely useless for others, depending on where people live and plan to travel. Do we allow these kinds of links, or not? --Smack (talk) 05:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Some pages have A LOT of links! (See PHP.) Usually, the first link is the subjects offical link, if it has one (MercyMe's (band) official site is mercyme.org, but the article Nudibranch shouldn't have a official site because it's a mollusk/animal). I propose that all OFFICIAL LINKS should be bolded for easier useability. Just being BOLD here. Alvinrune TALK 03:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Can we add webrings to the list of things to link to? Webrings would provide ready-made portals for subjects that have them, and when people can't resist adding non-notable fansites to an article, we can point to the webring as a representative link for fansites. Coyoty 17:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
After a two-day struggle to understand what seemed to me to be an inconsistent wikipedia linkspam policy (I now get it), particluarly the question of what takes precedence: what should be linked and what should not be linked, I added the following to the "What should not be linked" section of External_Links:
"NOTE relating to items #3 and #9: Because of neutrality & point-of-view concerns, a primary policy of wikipedia is that no one from a particular site/organization should post links to that organization/site etc. Because neutrality is such an important -- and difficult -- objective at wikipedia, this takes precedence over other policies defining what should be linked. The accepted procedure is to post the proposed links in the Talk section of the article, and let other - neutral - wikipedia editors decide whether or not it should be included."
I hope adding it to the page was not too hasty (please do with it as you wish), but having this aspect of the policy clearer would have saved much much long and circular debate. Mackinaw 16:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm in discussion at Talk:Calvin and Hobbes#External links redux regarding how this policy should be implemented and I'd appreciate comments from anyone interested in this policy and its implementation. Happy editing! Steve block talk 19:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for duplicating a some of the above, but I didn't want to continue an old discussion. My thoughts can be summed up in a 2 sentences:
There is no sensible reason for a quality source of information to reference in any way blogs, fansites or forums. They are - relative to an encyclopedia - poor, innacurate and POV.
Even the best types of these websites only provide third-hand, unverifiable factoids. The worst cases are extreme POV lies. I therefore strongly feel that we should specifically add these types of websites to the "Links to normally avoid" section. Of course there are (very rarely) specific reaons to link to these types of website, most obviously if the article is about the website itself, in which case a link would be acceptable. Martin 20:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Here's an example: I think it can be reasonable to link Mudcat. Their forum consists almost entirely of well-informed discussion of folk music and other related musics. Or The forum of Ballet Talk: moderated, and often a place of discussion for published critics (though not Ballet Talk for Dancers, crawling with teenage girls who want to be ballerinas). - Jmabel | Talk 02:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
What to do with websites and webpages that are created or altered due to the Wikipedia dynamics on certain articles? The webpages and website often contain criticism of these Wikipedia articles and the dynamics of Wikipedia and sometimes includes criticisms and even heavy ad homimem attacks on editors.
Andries 20:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
