User talk:Red Slash/Archive 4

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Pursuant to our discussion at Wikipedia talk:Article titles, I have created an essay Wikipedia:Consistency in article titles, and would welcome your input into that essay. I believe that it should quickly be refined with whatever additional points are needed to fully reflect our practices with respect to consistency, and moved to guideline status. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello-

I saw that you recently redirected ISIS and ISIL away from their existing disambig pages and directly to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. In reading the RfC currently (incorrectly) located here, my close would have been to not do this. The RfC is still open though. Is there consensus elsewhere for this?

If left standing, the issue arises that now a correct search for ISIS or ISIL as an acronym effectively orphaned the following from search:

• International Society for Individual Liberty
• International Standard Identifier for Libraries and Related Organizations
• Indian Society of International Law
• Institute for Science and International Security, a nonprofit, non-governmental institution to inform the public about science and policy issues affecting international security
• Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, former name of the Family Research Institute
• Institute for the Secularisation of Islamic Society, part of the Center for Inquiry
• Institute for the Study of Interdisciplinary Sciences, a British educational charity to examine and debate the revisionist theories of Immanuel Velikovsky
• International Species Information System, a non-profit software developer for zoos and aquariums
• The Institute of Science in Society, an organization providing scientific information on ecological sustainability

Please take a look and either resolve the orphaned searches or self-revert until the RfC is closed.

Cheers! --Tgeairn (talk) 03:32, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1994_FIFA_World_Cup&oldid=625474839&diff=prev was made without explanation.

Your earlier edit referred WP:STRONGNAT, which relates to date formats, not language used. The language used was discussed on the article's talk page. The sport itself is much more strongly International English than it is American English. It was originally written in British English and there are rules, particularly WP:ENGVAR, that indicate that it should be retained. I won't revert you, but I suspect that you will be reverted. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I browsed the talk page and found that it already contained a template saying that the article was in American English. (I also found a lot of discussion about this very issue, which surprised me.) I was referring to WP:TIES--my mistake, Walter Görlitz, that was an error on my part. A tournament hosted in a country speaking American English and without a presence from any other English-speaking country (oops, except Ireland, I guess) should be in the language variety of the country hosting it. Maybe WP:ENGVAR people would like to take a look at it. Red Slash 06:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Icelandic names are a complicated area, and probably best to consult with WikiProject Iceland editors before changing/moving them. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:30, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please join the discussion at Talk:Mathematics#"Math" vs "Maths". HiLo48 (talk) 06:43, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

added a link pointing to Isil

Þórður Guðjónsson

added a link pointing to Icelandic

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Hi Red Slash, can you give your input on a high priority dab move, or just even move it for us, thanks Widefox; talk 17:38, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Can you please explain what the purpose of your alterations/moves the above pages was?

It appears that you moved the original "Mini metro" page to "Mini metro (disambiguation)" then the page entitled "Mini metro" into a redirect to "Mini metro (game)".

Result? Anyone typing in "Mini metro" looking for the car (AKA Austin Metro) gets taken to the game page with no indication that the car article exists (nor where to find it), and the Mini metro (disambiguation) page is orphaned unless you explicitly type in that page name.

I'm struggling to see how this was an improvement on what was there before, but perhaps there was a good reason for it? Ubcule (talk) 12:47, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

While I thought in hindsight that maybe I'd come across as overly critical here, I now see that something similar happened with the ISIL redirect commented on below, i.e. you took it upon yourself to rearrange things, but didn't bother to check the new arrangement and/or see it through properly. I can only assume that's what happened here. Ubcule (talk) 20:37, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia. At least one of your recent edits, such as the edit you made to ISIL (disambiguation), did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at the welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make some test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page.Hi Red Slash, the emergency cleanup was required as a result of your unilateral bad move of the page, and failure to cleanup the resulting redirects afterwards. The warning from User:DPL bot even gave you a heads-up. I suggest you refrain from making controversial dab page moves until you read WP:MOSDAB, know how to fix the redirects, and gain consensus beforehand per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and move request etc. This is most disruptive for one of our most read articles. I haven't looked at Mini Metro, but it appears similar things may apply. Widefox; talk 18:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I made it so that the thousands of readers every day who type in "ISIL" or "ISIS" get to the article they want to reach instantly without going to a dab page. I do not apologize. Red Slash 00:24, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Completely ignores the part where he pointed out that you'd failed to tidy up the redirects afterwards. This suggests that you took it upon yourself to start rearranging things, but bailed halfway through when you reached the less interesting and more tedious part of checking and tidying things up leaving the whole thing as an incomplete and unhelpful mess.

That appears to be what happened with the Mini metro page moves I commented on above. Ubcule (talk) 20:32, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about fixing the links, I got a couple of them done and assumed (wrongly?) that the bots would catch the rest. I'm sorry for making more work for you. Red Slash 02:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on ISIS. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
[1] [2] [3] You've been reverted by 3 editors, who've told you to reach consensus first. You must also be aware that 1RR may cover this redirect (I do not know). I do know that edit warring to force it isn't working, despite it possibly being the primary topic for ISIS. It is a high bar for initialisms, so you WILL need to gain consensus. Widefox; talk 22:12, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What are you up to? After messing up the ISIL requiring a lot of work to cleanup, now you're still edit warring on ISIS redirect. You've reached your 1RR on the article, so you need to be aware of the nature of the 1RR... Widefox; talk 22:21, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Red_Slash reported by User:Widefox (Result: ). Thank you. Widefox; talk 22:45, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Your recent editing history at Rhônexpress shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
You and John Snow II need to cease this slow-burning dispute and sort it out on the talk page. If John fails to engage you in discussion, do not continue warring, leave the article be and alert the admins to the behaviour through the proper channels. Oosh (talk) 04:38, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi! You participated in the move discussion that closed this week on ISIL (disambiguation). There is currently a discussion on where the title this was redirected from, Isil, should link to located at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_September_24#Isil. Please feel fee to participate in the discussion. Thanks!--Yaksar (let's chat) 07:51, 26 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello Red Sash, Per policy on publicizing an RfC whilst waiting on the bot notification, you’ve been selected from the list of editors on the RfC page.

The RfC the link is here.

The question is:

Should we keep these newly created separate country articles about the Ebola epidemic?

• 2014 Ebola virus epidemic in Guinea
• 2014 Ebola virus epidemic in Liberia
• 2014 Ebola virus epidemic in Sierra Leone
• 2014 Ebola virus case in the United States

Your participation is greatly appreciated.

SW3 5DL (talk) 21:57, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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FYI I closed a move review relating to a discussion you were involved in and contributions you made. The upshot is that, in my opinion, this addition to WP:DIFFCAPS means the status of WP:DIFFCAPS needs to be resolved before it can be applied as policy. --Tóraí (talk) 23:41, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi, I asked what language the English Lonely Planet books are written in. Could you respond please? In ictu oculi (talk) 22:08, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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I saw your close at Talk:Rose_Bowl_(stadium)#Requested_move_31_December_2014. I agree with your move back to Rose Bowl (stadium). However, your rationale is confusing that it says "No consensus to move". Note the RM request was for "Rose Bowl stadium → Rose Bowl (stadium)"; it was in response to a move without RM hours earlier to Rose Bowl stadium. It seems like the close to the RM request should be "Move". Do you mind clarifying your close of its talk page? Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 02:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing! Hopefully my new edit clarified things! Thank you, Bagumba. Red Slash 05:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I understand your rationale now. Though I would argue that there was a consensus to move in the RM. In any event, it is at worst "no consensus", which as you stated would still result in the move back to "Rose Bowl (stadium)".—Bagumba (talk) 07:13, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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On Talk:Order of the Phoenix (fiction)#Requested move 2 January 2015, there seems to be a growing consensus for: "Oppose (Harry Potter), support (fictional organisation)". Do you want to update / clarify / whatever your "vote"? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 07:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Mark you can archive many of those requests for comments to make it easier to communicate important things. 172.56.20.112 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 06:45, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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I think the point is that if you take a look at following article like "Jewish terrorism" instead of "Judaism terrorism". Same thing should go here Islamist terrorism instead of islamic terrorism (which implies that the terrorist act itself is islamic). Saadkhan12345 (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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You just closed a RM on dockers contrary to RM instruction to leave to admins. I have reverted your edit. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What's worse it came after questions were asked and a request was given to relist. It also looked like a supervote. If you want to vote then vote, but I suggest you do not close any further controversial RMs. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, shoot, I just reread WP:RMNAC and I didn't see anything about RM instruction to leave to admins. I also looked at WP:RMB and saw a ridiculous backlog. I have no personal opinion on the move, because I have no earthly idea how I or anyone was supposed to develop any sort of opinion on the move when no rationale whatsoever was provided to move it. Red Slash 03:41, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's there, please look again. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:40, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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There is currently a discussion at WP:MR to which you may be associated with. The thread can be found here. Thanks. Qxukhgiels (talk) 22:26, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Was there some reason you wanted to add this? It seems like verbal padding. NotUnusual (talk) 04:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There has in some discussions been a question on whether or not we should assume there is a primary topic or not. I wanted to make it clear that we on WP do not ever assume one way or the other; each case is decided by consensus. Red Slash 00:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi Red Slash, I saw that you have been participated in a lot of discussion for Page Move/Rename. I never done any of this before so If possible I would like to ask for advice about the right procedure from how to start a discussion to how to request for the move properly so I can avoid to be disruptive. I'm not sure where to go to ask. If you have any suggestion on more appropriate place to ask this kind of question, kindly refer me to the right place.

At first, I thought the rename would be uncontroversial move so I asked on the talk page for opinion on what will be the best title for the page and if there will any objection if I'll do the move. There are only 3 responses so far. Two hasn't made a clear support or oppose while one has opposed.

Since it's now seem to have potential to be a controversial move, will it be appropriate for me to use this template WP:RM#CM? so there will be more participation to reach consensus? The editor who opposed the rename, has advised me to "drop the stick" while I think it would be best to have more opinion. What should I do now? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Sonflower0210 (talk) 16:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for the advice :). I have submitted the request here. Kindly comment if you have any input for the move request. Btw do I need to request for comments or just wait since it will be listed on WP:RM? Sonflower0210 (talk) 16:03, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, sorry to bother you again. Some editors has been participated in the RM discussion, there are some who support and oppose. Since it has been more than 7 days and as nominator I can't close or relisted it, how can I ask someone to review the consensus and decide if it need to be relisted? I'm still confuse about what a consensus is since it's not about voting. Thank you for your help. Sonflower0210 (talk) 16:53, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi Red Slash,

I would appreciate it if you could review the recent close to the RM of Islamic terrorism → Islamist terrorismIslamist terrorism. The close summary indicated, .. leaning towards "no move" where as there were four editors in support (with my nomination being considered) with just three editors in opposition. I also personally think that the arguments relating to the use of a specific and more accurate use of title are also of sufficient significance to carry forward the move. Please can you review the decision. Thanks. GregKaye 10:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Greg, I've looked at the decision again. You know and I know that we don't really count "votes" at Wikipedia. We evaluate decisions based on how they reflect our policies and guidelines--and we usually need sources to do that. I mean, I'm frustrated for you--when you said "I am not sure whether sources have really thought things through with regard to their usage", you may be dead on. But we can't tell reliable sources that they're wrong, can we?

In addition, there was a strong counter-point raised to the move that nobody really answered. Given that article titles should be consistent, which is policy, what would we do about Christian terrorism? I'm a Christian and I wholly disavow any connection to what's placed in that article--so if we should move the one article to avoid associations with standard Islam, why would we keep the title for the other article where it's associated with everyday Christianity?

You and the supporters made a very impressive argument that ... I'm going to just quote SMcCandlish here:

The terrorism isn't Islamic; it is not derived from Islam, its scriptures, doctrines or traditions. It is Islamist, because it is the product of Islamism, i.e. that particular blend of Islamic fundamentalist reinterpretation, Islam-focused trans-nationalism, Islam-centrism, Islam supremacy, and aggression against non-Islamic nations and peoples, that we call "Islamism". As a zillion people before me have pointed out, the average Muslim does not support Islamist terrorism. Calling it "Islamic terrorism" is pure propaganda, and an anti-Islam slur.

... which would be very compelling if it came from reliable sources, but is less compelling as one random Wikipedian's assessment. (And I like SMcCandlish! He's a good Wikipedian!) We've got to have some backing for a move like this, and we didn't have it here. If you want, you absolutely can file a move review, WP:MRV, but I stand behind the close of "no consensus". And I doubt there ever will be unless some sources for those assertions come up. Red Slash 19:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Red I think that you are exerting your POV here. In reply to Egsan Bacon I said, "if there were a commonly used term available such as Christianist or Jewishist I would advocate the use of these terms as well as in connection to related subjects of terrorism. ..." Of course there is would be a call to move the articles Christian terrorism and Jewish terrorism but just because there are no immediately possible destinations for these articles is no valid reason for refusing a move of another article.

On the issue of sources, specialists in issues of extremist terrorism such as Quilliam (think tank) make predominant reference to "Islamist terrorism". site:http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/ "Islamist terrorism" gets "33 results" while site:http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/ "Islamic terrorism" gets "1 result" That one result was in a quote from musician Salman Ahmad of Pakistani rock band Junoon who was quoted as saying, "I also think there’s a failure in the media to research about the conflict, instead opting to present it as general Islamic terrorism."

Islamist terrorism is a more accurate title for the topic. We don't merely go with popular usage over factual and accurate description. Terrorism is not Islamic. I again ask you to reconsider whether it is worth imposing, I think needlessly, the same problems on the Islamic/Islamist terrorism article just because, for lack of an appropriate alternative, problems of inaccurate titling are faced by the "Christian terrorism" and "Jewish terrorism" articles. Just because inaccurate titles exist for some Wikipedia articles we are not given remit to impose inaccurate titles on other Wikipedia articles. GregKaye 08:07, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Greg, that's a source that should have been introduced during the move request. How would you have expected any closer to consider a source that you as proposer did not cite? Especially when no other supporter cited it? Look at the requested move again (here). Where in that move request did you introduce any form of source for what you asserted in that move request? Nobody sourced anything. I can't make a decision based on your unsourced assertions placed against other editors' unsourced assertions, and neither could anyone else. I am baffled by your suggestion of bias--I mean, yeah, I have a strong bias against terrorism, I think it's bad--because I said I was closing the request based on a lack of sources, and I indeed did close the request for that very reason. (Briefly, because it's not at all the main point--yes, if we absolutely must, we are allowed to have titles that are a bit inconsistent. But if we have no sources saying why it should be called "Islamist" versus "Islamic", our preference would be to title it "Islamic" to maintain consistency with those other articles.) Red Slash 16:42, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Red Slash I have asked you to reconsider on the basis that, while there are sources that support both "Islamic terrorism" and "Islamist terrorism", the majority of Wikipedia editors involved viewed that "Islamist terrorism" was the most appropriate and accurate title for the article based on the descriptive and specific nature of the title. Despite this you stated "no consensus" despite a 4:3 balance in favour and you erroneously stated "leaning towards no move" which is utterly unsubstantiated in the content. Article titles need to accurately describe their topic as of first and foremost importance and the majority of contributors considered that "Islamist terrorism" best did that job. I honestly have no understanding of your close. Your only argument has been that the parallel Christianity related topic is called Christian terrorism so this article has to be called Islamic terrorism. This, as far as I can see, makes absolutely no sense. You mention consensus. You mention leaning towards no move. You mention an irrelevant argument. All are false and still you closed the discussion. You did not need "some sources to make you understand that this title is factually wrong". The case main case was that the title "Islamist terrorism" was more specific and more accurate than "Islamic terrorism" and that it is a better and more accurate title. My other argument was that: "WP:LABEL (also accessed by WP:TERRORIST) speaks of value laden labels yet, in this situation, it can be argued that Islamic is a more value laden label even than terrorist. Many Muslims roundly condemn terrorist action. Searches indicate about half the level of hits for "Islamist terrorism" and "Islamist terrorist" in comparison to searches on "Islamic terrorism" and "Islamic terrorist". The Islamist terms have a far more specific meaning on a subject that is not representative of Islam." Despite this the close has gone against the majority view of editors with, as far as I can see, no justification. GregKaye 17:59, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you understand WP:NOTAVOTE? Have you found this yet? I apologize if I have assumed you're familiar with the way WP:CONSENSUS works at Wikipedia and you're actually not. We do not count votes. If a single opposing editor used a pair of fake accounts to lodge a pair of extra "oppose votes", that would've led to a 5-4 "majority" against the move, and it would have changed nothing. You need to source your arguments if you want to convince anyone. I do not have any arguments against the move you requested. I repeat myself: I do not have any arguments against the move you requested. But no experienced closer of move requests at Wikipedia is likely to move a long-standing article title without any sourcing on the behalf of the move request. Regarding the page--seriously, wait a month or two and then file a new move request! You know I won't oppose it--I don't oppose the move request as it stands! But when you file that move request, you'd better include your sources in the proposed move, and not hold onto them until the move request already has concluded. Please read Wikipedia:Consensus and take note of the places you find the word "majority". Please. Please. Please. Red Slash 18:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Red Slash, "please, please, please" If you have a view such as, "I just needed some sources" then please do something such as place this as a comment or some such. Surely this is standard practice. Don't just close the discussion a day following the last contribution to the thread and waste everyone's time. I did a simple search on terrorism isn't Islamic and the first result from Time magazine is titled Obama Is Right Not to Talk About ‘Islamic’ Terrorism. If you want to make demands in an RM, please, for goodness sake, give people a chance. Why the hell should I wait a month or two? This request should never have been closed. GregKaye 18:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's enough, thank you. I've said what I have to say several times. Move request closers get in trouble for using sources not brought up in the discussion. We don't settle things by majorities. Now, have a nice day. Red Slash 21:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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I'm not quite sure how these page moves match the consensus, but in any case, the pages are all mixed up. PeachamPeacham and Talk:Peacham are redirected to different pages, and there's really no reason for Henry Peacham (disambiguation) to exist. (You might also want to check out Henry Peacham and Talk:Henry Peacham.) kennethaw88 • talk 04:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My bad times a thousand. Sloppy moving of pages--I should have known WAY better. I'm sorry; thank you for alerting me. Red Slash 01:30, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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