User talk:Phantomsteve/Archives/2014/November

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Phantomsteve. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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• sorted out! PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 14:38, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Steve. I wonder if you can clarify your reasons for this. The reason you gave in your edit summary mentions referencing, but that was not the reason given for deletion. The article from start to finish reads like a panegyric. Indeed, I am doubtful whether I have ever before seen an administrator decline a G11 deletion on such a blatantly promotional article. I would certainly have deleted it, and DGG, who nominated it for deletion, is one of the most careful and diligent of all active administrators when it comes to deletions, and I am confident that he would not have nominated it unless he, like me, thought it was a very clear piece of promotion. I would therefore be very interested if you could explain your thoughts on the matter. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 13:22, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi James, thanks for contacting me. While I thought it does indeed come close to a speedy deletion example, I felt that having read through it, there is sufficient *claim* to notability (with the referencing included) to fail the test for a speedy deletion, as an improvement in the style and language would probably be possible. Personally, I do not feel that this article is sufficient to survive an AfD, but as I am at work, I do not have the time to actually start an AfD. When I get home, if it is not already started, I will start the AfD.

I do not disagree with this article being deleted per se, as is obvious from the above - but I did not feel that it quite met the criteria for speedy deletion. I'll let you and DGG know when it's listed for AfD.

Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 18:02, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

JamesBWatson -- I consider this a reasonable decline; whether a bio is promotional enough to fall under G11 is a judgment call. Reading it again, it is possible that the article could be improved enough to not fall under G11. I try to be careful, but I make errors, and it has a few times over the years happened that something I tagged as G11 has ended up being kept by the community. I do not delete single handed for A7 or G11. The point of my doing this is lost if people simply accept my tagging.

I agree it's not at all an A7. The best indication of possible significance is President of the Indian Prosthodontic Society, which is a national organization, but this may not alone be enough for passing afd. Deleting for lack of notability and for promotionalism can sometimes overlap as reason that would justify a deletion when neither alone would be sufficient, and I try to use both reasons for speedy when possible. I have also sometimes nominated for afd giving both reasons. DGG ( talk ) 19:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I have created an AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahesh Verma PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:05, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Steve, I wonder if you can clarify your reasons for the deletion of the page Chirag Kulkarni. In the summary, you mentioned that the this has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: The article from start to finish mentions the importance of Chirag Kulkarni as a young entrepreneur, and how he is mentioned by dp.ru, the leading business magazine of Russia as one of the "most successful entrepreneurs". [1] The first time the article was made, it was deleted because of a lack of citations, but I feel the citations are relevant and the relevance is indicated. Personally, I do feel this article is worthy of not following in section A7. Hopefully we can edit this accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobsimon232422 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for contacting me. Before deletion, I looked at two things:

1. the article text itself: the companies he has founded do not have articles of their own, which would imply that they are not in and of themselves notable; "He is regarded as one of the top entrepreneurs in the country under 21"... by whom?; as a whole there did not seem to me to be any credible claim to notability, and it is (to my eyes) a border-line promotional piece.
2. the references (I'll include the dp.ru link above which was not used in the article, although the dp.ru piece was a reference):
   1. LinkedIn Profile: LinkedIn Profiles are self-written, and are not considered reliable sources;
   2. CrunchBase: as profiles can be submitted by any person who has registered (albeit with some apparent moderation, although I know a couple of people who have created companies that have been added with no apparent checks made); as such not considered a reliable source;
   3. dp.ru article - firstly, I'm not sure why there is a Russian language article rather than an American article; secondly although you say that it is the leading business magazine of Russia, there appears to be no article on it on the English Language Wikipedia - and the Russian Wikipedia article says that is the central business newspaper of St. Petersburg (again, why is a Russian paper reporting on an American business man?) - other sources claim that the "leading business magazine of Russia" would be Director General, or perhaps Secret Firmy, or Biznes ... I couldn't find any reference to dp having that status! Moving on from that, the text appears to be from a press release issued by Chirag himself, it doesn't read to me as being written by one of the paper's staffers;
   4. Liberty Express Radio: this is based on an interview with him, which are not generally counted as reliable sources!
   5. Ideas Mensch: again, all the facts are from the man himself in an interview
   6. C&M Group - even ignoring the fact that the link did not work, it comes from one of the companies he was involved with - not an independent source!

The external links in the article are to a blog, a twitter account and a YouTube video... none of them would be considered reliable sources.

I looked for English language news coverage, but didn't find anything.

Finally, pretty much the same article was deleted following the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chirag Kulkarni - the same article, but with the surname correctly capitalised - and the consensus was that the subject did not meet the notability criteria, with a load of non-reliable sources.

A website existing does not make it notable or reliable, and certainly not independent of the subject! Those are some of the foundations of a successful article - the subject must meet the notability guidelines here - and especially the Notability guidelines for people, which says "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." You might like to read those linked guidelines, as they will show where this article falls down.

In summary: I see no reasonable way in which this could be edited in a way to meet the criteria for inclusion, as the individual does not meet the notability criteria for inclusion.

Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:54, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

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Hello Steve,

There was an article in the name of "SAADHANE-RajguruGuruswamiKalikeri" which you have deleted. We are trying to create the profile of Pt Rajguru Guruswami Kalikeri, 75 years old Musician and a great writer of Kannada literature from India. He is one among the lovable writers of Veerashaiva religion literature. I humbly request you to reconsider your deletion as the society should not be unaware of such senior contributor of Music and Kannada Literature.

Thank you Rajguru Academy Trust (R) Karnataka-India — Preceding unsigned comment added by AcademyR (talk • contribs) 06:33, 20 November 2014

Thanks for contacting me. Firstly, the article was clearly promotional in appearance and tone, and as such cannot be undeleted. Secondly, you would appear to be using an account as (a) an "official" one for the Trust, (b) a shared account. Neither of these are acceptable on Wikipedia. As such, your username is unacceptable, and I have blocked the account. Please read the notice that I have left on your talk page for further details. Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 18:20, 27 November 2014 (UTC)