This is an archive of past discussions with User:Parsecboy. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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Thank you today for the article, introduced (in 2019): "This is another entry in the series of articles on German battleships - I wrote the article originally in 2010 and then rewrote it with new sources last year"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:17, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
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Hi Parsec, I noticed that you've reviewed an automobile FAC before and I'm wondering if you could possibly leave your comments on this FAC about the Aston Martin DB9? (This is my first nomination). The source and image review have both been passed, so I think that, because this is my first, it will need quite a lot of supports. Thanks and best, and don't feel obliged to, 750h+ | Talk 14:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
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I think I can handle most of this, except for the German stuff. It would be great if you could use a better source than Lenton for them. I'll be working sporadically one this so don't be afraid to dive in if you actually got free time!--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I should have no problem with that. As busy as I've been at work lately, I wouldn't expect immediate work from me ;) Parsecboy (talk) 00:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
Ain't nothing urgent about it. I'm just waiting on the acceptance of my bid by the seller on a new house myself. That's gonna suck up huge amounts of time once I close.
Thanks! Your good wishes made the difference. House inspection in a week and then closing in a month with all repair costs coming off the top.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Glad to hear it, though I don't envy you the task of having to move. We've been in our house for 13 years, and I dread the idea of ever having to pack up and move. Parsecboy (talk) 22:09, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
USS Mindoro (CVE-120)
Thanks for the reversion, but DANFS is not necessarily determinative or dispositive, as I and other naval researchers have discovered. And unfortunately, the NHHC no longer has the staff or resources to make corrections (although several of us have volunteered). Mindoro III (CVE-120) was one of the Commencement Bay class of escort carriers - the Navy initially named them after bodies of water, then began naming them for significant WW II battles or invasion sites. In contrast, Mindoro I (1899 gunboat) and her PG/PR sisters were named after America's newest Pacific island possessions (e.g., Luzon, Guam, Wake, Oahu, and probably the most famous, Panay). Most notably, there were no other Commencement Bay carriers named after the lost gunboats, hence my attempt to correct the Wiki page. Drwong64 (talk) 01:40, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
Oh, I am well aware that DANFS has issues - I've raised a few of them myself over the years to NHHC to have the corrected. My point was more that there is no source provided, but that DANFS, which is cited, doesn't support the change. Parsecboy (talk) 14:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
I'm glad to find another DANFS reader who has run into NHHC's bureaucratic brick wall. Can you revise the reference to cite to the ship's commissioning book then? http://mindoro.atspace.com/page10.htm.
DANFS is similarly inaccurate regarding the naming of Rendova (CVE-114), citing the island itself rather than the landings that took place there in the summer of '43. Thankfully nobody has reposted DANFS's inaccuracy in her Wiki page! :-)
If you look at the older, printed copies of DANFS, you can see how the error crept into the online version (I have a set of the '76 edition, but you can see it here in the '59 edition as well). Clearly, when it was digitized, the namesake of the first two vessels was simply copied into the third.
I don't love using the commissioning book, since it's self-published and has no publication information (though that's not to say I doubt its accuracy, it just doesn't meet Wiki's sourcing standards). I trawled through Google Books and came up empty-handed there. We might have to just omit the mention of a namesake in the absence of a better source.
I've been following Pocklington's Youtube channel for some time now (amusingly, he started it by running Wiki articles that I and others had written through a voice generator), and had seen his announcement for the panel discussion. It looks like it'll be interesting, but I'll have to watch after the fact. Parsecboy (talk) 12:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
@Drwong64: - I emailed the NHHC when we discussed this on the off chance that they'd get back to me, and as luck would have it, they did! They updated the DANFS page this morning, and I've fixed our article as well. Parsecboy (talk) 15:39, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Hallelujah! That's fantastic news - thanks for following up on this! On a related note, do you want add the cruise book under the "External Links" heading (since it's not authoritative enough to be listed as a "Reference")? Drwong64 (talk) 17:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
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Thank you today for SMS Helgoland (1909) introduced (in 2010): "Helgoland was a German battleship built before World War I, the ship saw extensive service throughout the war and played a central role in the Wilhelmshaven mutiny. This article is comprehensive; it includes information from a widely known (at least in the field) diary of a sailor from the ship as well as the recently published book (Feb. 2010) by Gary Staff."! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
My older daughter had her instrument fitting last week - she tried the clarinet, but didn't like it as much as the trumpet, which is what she settled on. Though I imagine it will be some time before she produces any sounds that could be classified as delightful, haha! Parsecboy (talk) 16:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
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Is there a way to say " The Prinz Adalbert class was an improvement of the earlier armored cruiser Prinz Heinrich, but with improved armament and armor." a little more tightly? Would ' The Prinz Adalbert class was based on the earlier armored cruiser Prinz Heinrich, but with improved armament and armor.' work for you and the sources? Gog the Mild (talk) 21:05, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
I see you've made 150 edits (over 82 percent) to that ironclad warship article we disagreed about, including the first and last. Been through a lot over the last four and a half years, too, getting it to and maintaining it at GA status. Not only do I think this makes you a reasonably unbeatable opponent, but possibly an unbeatable proponent and just the sort to teach modern English readers what a barbette ship's even all about, once and for all. If not, fine. Just think about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
That's been on the back burner for a long while now - I wrote a fairly significant chunk of the barbette article (shockingly, it's been a decade since then), and we could probably spin off some of that content to start a fairly basic article (like central battery ship). I'm in the middle of another project right now, but it might be time to move barbette ship up on the priority list. Parsecboy (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
And now we have a blue link. It's just what was in the barbette article, which has been summarized, but it's a start at the very least. Parsecboy (talk) 23:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
My name is Mr. Petersen, and I am new to Wikipedia editing. I'm a big fan of Prinz Eugen and the head chairman of the Prinz Eugen Association.
I recently added information to the Prinz Eugen page and related pages based on materials I have, including a book by Fritz-Otto Busch and various collector items. I noticed you reverted most of the edits, and I’d like to discuss how we can collaborate to ensure the page remains accurate. Much of my information is from sources that are not part of mainstream media but are still credible.
Hi Mr. Petersen. The issue is, we have to write articles based on WP:Reliable sources, so whatever sources you want to include would have to meet the requirements there. Generally, they'd have to be published by a reputable publisher (in other words, not by a vanity press or self-published). Busch's book is cited in the article already - what other sources do you have? Parsecboy (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
Hello Parsecboy,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your guidance and I understand. I’ll take some time to gather the additional materials and sources that I have, and I’ll return to you once I have everything ready. I hope that is okay. I look forward to working together to improve the article. Given that Busch's book is already cited in the article, I was wondering why the information about Prinz Eugen being a flagship isn't included, even though Busch clearly states it. Would it be possible to add this specific detail from the book to provide more accuracy to the article?
“In pursuance of this policy the heavy cruisers Prinz Eugen and Admiral Scheer also received orders and on February 20th, 1942, only seven days after the break-through of the channel, the flotilla left Brunsbüttelkoog for Norway, with Prinz Eugen as flagship with an Admiral, the Commander-in-Chief of battleships, on board”.
While his name is not directly mentioned in the chapter, there's enough written evidence to suggest that the on board Admiral, was Vice-Admiral Ciliax, as they describe his actions and command during the Channel Dash, which Ciliax was in command of.
On page 187 chapter 15, sentence (About Vice-Admiral Thiele):
“The deteriorating situation on all fronts, which worsen steadily month by month, made it seem likely that the vessels in the Admiral's command - Prinz Eugen, Admiral Scheer, Lützow, Schleswig-Holstein, Nürnberg, Leipzig, Köln, Emden, Hansa and, from Autumn 1944, the Admiral Hipper, too - would have to take a hand in the war at sea. The Prinz Eugen was named as flagship should this be so, a fact which gave a great boost to the morale of the ship's company”
Further down the same page
“On the evening of August 18th came the order that the ship should be ready to put to sea at 0700 hours on the 19th. Escorted by five torpedo-boats, the Prinz Eugen sailed with the Vice-Admiral´s flag flying from the foretop.”
Same chapter further ahead on page 193:
“On the morning of October 10th the Prinz Eugen, flying the flag of Vice-Admiral Thiele, the Lützow, three destroyers and four big torpedo-boats put to sea. The group was already known as “Battle Group Thiele”, a name which in the final months of the war achieved some renown.”
On page 199 chapter 16 (just after the collision with Leipzig):
“His arguments were convincing, and every member of the conference realized how terribly important it was that this cruiser, the flagship, should be quickly restored to readiness for action”
On page 210 chapter 18:
“From March 10th-22th the battle group was led by Vice-Admiral Rogge, Vice-Admiral Thiele having taken over another group with the Lützow.”
From there on out, it's implied that Prinz Eugen either kept her flagship status all the way to the surrender in Copenhagen or lost the title just prior to entering Copenhagen.
I added a mention of being Thiel's flagship, but I'd like to have confirmation that she continued on as Rogge's as well. At some point, I'll get around to incorporating Hildebrand et. al.'s Die Deutschen Kriegsschiffe, and they generally do a good job of tracking command and flagship changes (and Prinz Eugen was a significant ship, so their chapter should be fairly detailed). I'm in the middle of a series of German gunboats (for example SMS Wolf (1878), the current project), but perhaps I'll at least check for Rogge once I'm done there. Parsecboy (talk) 13:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
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You know, you could have just pointed out the other article - your smartass attitude isn't strictly necessary. Perhaps someone should have created an index at at Russian yacht Livadia, which was a red link when I looked this morning. I guess that wasn't fun enough.
Sorry, I was trying to be lighthearted. Next time I'll just suggest you read the first sentence of an article before moving it. DuncanHill (talk) 16:18, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
That someone may someday create that article is no reason to disambiguate the one we have now. Preemptive disambiguation causes problems when people forget to create a redirect or index at the base name (which is what happened in this case and the one above - and if there is only one article currently, it causes a disservice to readers who land on the index first, and then have to click to reach the only actual piece of content we have). If we eventually have an article on that ship, we can cross that bridge when we get to it (and there's an argument that only 2 articles don't require an index - compare SMS Moltke and SMS Moltke (1877); the former is the primary topic, and disambiguation can be resolved by hatnotes). Parsecboy (talk) 12:06, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
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Hey MB, good to hear from you! I think it's probably beyond the scope of the Lützow article, but I wonder if Paschen is notable enough for his own article. It seems he developed the German counterpart to the dumaresq, and wrote a significant German account of Jutland, so while he doesn't appear to have reached flag rank, he may still be notable. Parsecboy (talk) 15:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Interesting - I have very long range plans to tackle more German naval officers (I've only done a handful so far, and it'd require tracking down a set of Hildebrand's Deutschlands Admirale) and that would be a good one to add to the list. Parsecboy (talk) 13:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
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Thank you today for SMS Friedrich Carl another German armored cruiser built in the early 1900s that was mined and sunk in the early months of World War I, though most of the crew was evacuated by other ships. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:56, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear of your friend's passing, I hope you are able to find comfort.
It looks like a nice trip - I've never been anywhere in South America, but as the kids get older, we would like to start traveling more. Parsecboy (talk) 20:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, for both. I am with my friend's widow as often as with both before, which is good. - That area of Brazil is completely "untouristy", - it would have been a problem without someone local because English gets you nowhere, but I knew the friend who has worked there for 60 years (and was recognized on buses) and who was the reason to visit. I have seen some of most countries in SA (last century though) and found it fascinating. In Brazil, I had touched only the major places then: even that fascinating. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
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Hi Parsecboy, I noticed that you were the one who added the light cruiser numbers to the Plan Z page I'd just like to know where you got the number from as from what I can see there were only 6 M-Class cruisers planned and Germany only had 6 light cruisers at the time so 12 seems more accurate to me but, I've also found wildly different numbers other places. So If you could just link where you found it whenever you can that would be great. Also please don't interpret this as passive aggressiveness or doubt I just can't find the information anywhere else. Thanks in advance. ARealHumanPersonGuy (talk) 13:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
I believe this may be a typo, under where ship numbers are listed it states that "It must be pointed out that German sources and books differ surprisingly in the figures for the 'Z-Plan'; the figures given here are based on the projects quoted in this book." but then under the cruisers section (specifically light cruisers) starting on page 229 it only mentions 12 ships the Emden, Konigsberg, Karlsruhe, Koln, Leipzig, Nurnberg, and the six M-Class cruisers. I see no later mention of light cruisers excluding the scout cruisers which leads me to believe this is human error by one of the books authors. I would also like to say that based on the first part of the quote and other information I've seen the plan may have called for either 23 or 44 ships depending on the iteration I have no definitive source for this idea but it is something to consider for further research. Also to be completely honest 13 light cruisers seems like an exceptionally small amount compared to the large number of destroyers. ARealHumanPersonGuy (talk) 14:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
Hoi Parsecboy, I noticed your comment on moving the firecontrol text to the Bismarck-class and that's fair enough to me, but would the Characteristics chapter not be better balanced if there would be one line each, to document the presence of the surface and anti-aircraft fire control at least ? Now this chapter mentions about a ship's newspaper that was printed just one time, and about the transfer of 600 mans from Karlsruhe; that seems less relevant to me than the fire control.
You have a point that the rangefinders should probably at least be mentioned - I'll put something back. I also don't think the crew paragraph is ideal - probably the stuff about each division should be in the class as well. Parsecboy (talk) 10:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
Hoi Parsecboy, I'm coming often across expressions like "They were mounted in six Dop. L. C/31 twin mounts amidships". Dop. L. is not a typification like "Mark VII" or so, it is the abbreviation of DoppelLafette, so twin mount. Hence the same thing is mentioned twice, just in different languages. Is this fine or should it be addressed, like changing it in: "They were mounted in six twin mounts ( German:Doppellafette, abbreviated Dop. L.) amidships" ?
Hi Klutserke - I'm guessing you're referring to the Scharnhorst-class battleship article. When I wrote that some 15 years ago, I assumed it was part of the designation (since the Navweaps source I used seems to [still] indicate that it is). I think it'd be easier to just cut the abbreviation, since it's not especially relevant to the ship page, but it probably should be mentioned on the 10.5 cm Flak 38 page, which is a bit thin on details. Parsecboy (talk) 00:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Three of your contest entries for November show none to C assessments because b2, coverage and accuracy, was found by the bot not to be met. All three appear to me to be B class. I propose to change these assessments to B unless you, as an experienced user and former coordinator, know the reason for the lower C assessment. You have two entries for SMS Hay (1881). The none to B assessment is the one shown on the talk page for that article. The start to GA assessment is apparently meant to be SMS Hay (1860). I am changing that entry accordingly. Thanks. Donner60 (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Hi Donner - I just took what the bot left them at. I mainly didn't want to obligate anyone to look at them. And good catch on the two Hays - I must have been distracted when I put them in. Thanks! Parsecboy (talk) 11:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
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Am I right in thinking that the correct dab for the commerce raider by this name should be 1915 - the year she was acquired by Germany? Currently we have the dabs windjammer, auxiliary cruiser, 1888, 1878 and 1913 used. Also having the 1892 cruiser by the same name undabbed might be causing bad links. Some of the dabbing used for other German raiders is also problematical. I'll sort them all out if you concur Lyndaship (talk) 15:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Hi Lynda - yeah, it should be 1915 (amusingly, it turns out I was responsible for the 1878 dab, which was apparently a typo in the article at the time). You're probably right about bad links to SMS Seeadler (although on looking, there are only 62 article space links and they're probably mostly ok?). In any event, it probably should be dabbed, since neither one of them is the primary topic. Parsecboy (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Lyndaship - since we've been cleaning up these pages the last couple of days, I thought it'd be worth letting you know my thinking on SMS Blücher and SMS Blücher (1877). I think those are best to leave as-is, since the former gets about 25x the page views of the latter (even if still fairly low traffic to both), and there are only 2 articles by that name. Parsecboy (talk) 19:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Please see my second revert of your edit. I' sorry you didn't think much to my note on the first reversion. I did actually get a thanks from @FlaLibrarian Spinney Hill (talk) 17:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
And please see my edit-summary; stop edit-warring and go to the talk page. Incidentally, I notice this isn't the first time you've tried to edit-war nonsense into the page. Please stop. Parsecboy (talk) 17:17, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you today for SMS Niobe, done in collaboration, introduced (in 2020): "Niobe had something of a colorful career, serving under the Imperial German, Yugoslav, Italian, and Nazi German flags (and depending on who you ask, maybe under the banner of the Independent State of Croatia as well). She also book-ended her relatively long life under the name Niobe, having been renamed Dalmacija and Cattaro (and, again, maybe Znaim) in between. This article is the result of a collaboration between Peacemaker and myself ..."! - I have two articles of people who just died on the same page. - I uploaded more pics from the trip mentioned for the last TFA, the last batch will hopefully come today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
