This is an archive of past discussions with User:Mattlore. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hi, adding Jason Pekepo and Tai Walter was an aide-mémoire for me to research these guys, but all I can find are references detailing them having made the Cook Islands squad. I assume that if they didn't play, unless they had a noteworthy club career, they wouldn't be notable, and should be removed from the template. Cheers. DynamoDegsy (talk) 12:49, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I haven't been able to find anything about them either. I will remove them then, if you find anything on them feel free to add them back in! Also, cheers for creating all the CI pages, I've gone and expanded the ones I can. Mattlore (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Infoboxes
Hi there Mattlore, now I could do some digging, but I sense you might know the answer by hard; is it possible to combine Template:Infobox rugby biography and Template:Infobox officeholder? I'm asking because I'm looking at Tu Wyllie, he already has the former, and he should also have the latter. Now I've seen bios display two infoboxes, but I think I've come across a discussion on nesting different type infoboxes. Schwede6604:39, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I couldn't resolve this. I looked and came across others who have tried to solve the same problem. Schwede6604:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Hey, sorry naah i wouldn't have much more information on Gibbs unfortunately. But i do have another page to suggest to you. Would you have heard of Marvin Filipo? Pretty sure he used to play for the Warriors. Any extra information on him would be pretty good. Thanks. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 11:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay. I've been unable to find any references to Percy Williams (rugby league) in my books. As you are probably aware, he doesn't appear to have been on the 1907–1908 New Zealand rugby tour of Australia and Great Britain. The mention of the Lancashire League on the wigan.rlfans.com means that Wigan actually won the Lancashire League in those seasons, in that era every club played other teams in their own county home-and-away, but played only one game against the clubs from outside their own county, results from games played within the county counted towards the county league, and results from all games counted towards the Rugby Football League Championship, on a percentage of wins basis. I'll keep an eye out Percy Williams references as I acquire new books. Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 10:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for having a look! I couldn't find much and thought it would be worth a go asking you, seems to be your area of expertise :) Mattlore (talk) 20:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Hull
Hey, first of all, thanks for all the work you've been doing with the redirects! However, with the Hull FC -> Hull changes, in some cases might it be better to leave the text as Hull FC to distinguish the club from Hull KR? Obviously im Australasian based though so you might have an alternative view? Mattlore (talk) 20:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
My reasoning was that because of Hull F.C./Hull FC's historical lack of a "RL", or even "R" prefix to the "F.C."/"FC" to indicate rugby league, and including just the "F.C."/"FC" to Hull might infer an assocation football club, that might lead to confusion with the football club Hull City F.C./Hull City FC, I thought this would be more confusing than would be caused by the similarity of Hull to Hull Kingston Rovers/Hull KR. What do you think? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 21:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Hull and Rovers/Hull KR is a fine way to distinguish them. It's similar to Dundee (FC) and Dundee United. Use of 'Hull FC' has become more common but use of Hull only shouldn't lead to confusion about which one of the two is being referred to. LunarLander//talk//21:45, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I think generally that makes sense, but you might need to watch out for some special cases: e.g. if the player has played for both FC and KR it might pay to leave the FC in? Not sure how your script works though and if that's do-able. Mattlore (talk) 21:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Talking of scripts, would you know how one would go about writing a script to change, e.g. [[Rugby league positions#Prop|Prop]] to {{rlp|PR}}? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 06:37, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I can't think of any off the top of my head - In Australasia clubs tend to wait until players are off contract and "free agents". But I will have a look around. Maybe my only advice would be in the introduction to the article include some criteria about what should be included in the list and what isn't "significant". Mattlore (talk) 21:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
On second thoughts the NZRL used to charge NSWRL (and maybe English) clubs a fee to sign Kiwi players so I am sure I'll be able to find some references for some of those transfers to include. Mattlore (talk) 21:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Off-contact/free-agent players do seem to be the way of things these days, Richie Myler being an exception. I was thinking that significant fees would be the progression of the world record fee, with additional entries for the highest fee paid for a particular position, e.g. Hooker is Lee Jackson?, Loose forward/Lock is Derek Turner?, etc. Perhaps Richie Myler could be included as the most expensive teenager? I think the table should be sorted by adjusted fee, to give an insight to it's value in "real terms". Also, other than a note, I'm not sure whether I need to do more to differentiate between cash-only, and cash+player deals? In addition, when players swapped from RU to RL, prior to 1995 the RU club wouldn't recieve a transfer fee, but the player could receive a significant signing-on fee, e.g. Lewis Jones £6000 in 1952 (worth £382,000 now), is/was this ever prevalent in Australasia? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 08:20, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Most New Zealand RU players seemed to have switched to English RL rather than Australian RL so I assume they would have got sign on fees. Mattlore (talk) 19:58, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Marist Saints
Thank you for fixing up the Marist Saints page. It was the first time i have ever edited a Wikipedia page and don't really know how to respond to talk yet. As you can probably guess from the images my interest is the Stormont Shield. The photos contain my father, grandfather, his brothers and great grandfather. I beleive the Stormont shield came about because of William Stormonts death from Rheumatic Heart disease in 1925. He contracted Rheumatic fever in WWI in France He went to France december 31 1917 when he was 16 or 18 (His death certificate says he was born in 1899 but my grandmother always told me he was 16 when he went to WW1). You definitely have an impressive body of work on Wikipedia. Stojo01—Preceding undated comment added 09:36, 2 April 2011 (UTC).
On second thoughts, I have restored the template and removed the db tag from it - it was making all those MPs show up as candidates for speedy deletion. Please make sure it isn't transcluded anywhere before you tag it again. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 17:24, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Can't ACT NZ just be made a redirect to the duplicate version, ACT New Zealand? I tried this but it was reverted. Mattlore (talk) 20:14, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of off-field incidents involving rugby league players until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. WWGB (talk) 07:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
An initial guess is they didn't play in Test matches and so wont appear on RLP (for a while in the 10s-30s NZ mostly played matches against NSW and QLD). [1] is a really good site and also the [2] site has info on all past RU players.
Hogan is here [3] but didn't play any Test matches. Same with Evans, Francis and Mataira - Mataira was on the 1939 tour that got the GB but WWII broke out before the Test matches.
I guess that raises an interesting question about them being dual-internationals - on one hand they have never played Test matches but on the other they have played for NZ and the NZRL has awarded them a cap and a unique playing number. Mattlore (talk) 21:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Well nzleague.co.nz lists it as 1912 - and that year NZ toured Australia, playing NSW and QLD and then hosted a NSW tour. I've got a few books that when I get around to going through should tell me if he was in the touring party or played them at home - not sure if it will identify the actual matches, but it might do. Oh, the nzrl says he went on the tour (see key). Mattlore (talk) 20:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
1. The stats.allblacks.com website states that 'Bolla' won won a rugby league cup final with Hull, I assumed this to be the Challenge Cup, but while Hull won this in 1913–14, according to wigan.rlfans.com 'Bolla' was at Wigan, and Hull didn't win the Challenge Cup again until 1981–82, but the hullfc.com website has 'Bolla' at Hull from 1910 until 1919, but other references have him playing rugby union until 1911, and wigan.rlfans.com have him at Wigan from 1912 until 1919. However, Hull did win the Rugby Football League Championship finals of 1919–20 and 1920–21, so perhaps stats.allblacks.com meant 'Bolla' won one of these Championship finals. However, that still doesn't expain the near complete overlap in his playing days at Wigan and Hull according to the respective websites.
2. I assume 'Bolla' didn't play for New Zealand (RL) and that his international rugby league appearances were for the Australasia rugby league team, would you know whether they were known as Australasia, or Australia, on the tour?
3. The stats.allblacks.com website states that 'Bolla' was known as 'Alt' while playing in England. Neither wigan.rlfans.com or hullfc.com mention 'Alt', and I was wondering whether this was a typo and should be "Alf", as 'T' and 'F' are adjacent on the keyboard.
4. Finally would you know from what the nickname of 'Bolla' is derived?
1: Perhaps Hull won a regional cup trophy during that time? Or maybe it was the championship final. It seems the hullfc stats must be wong.
2: The 1911-12 Kangaroo tour was an Australasian team (see 1911–12 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain). My Auckland Rugby League book says Francis then led the 1912 New Zealand tour of Australia, leaving halfway through the tour to join Wigan.
3: I'd go with the Alf theory - seems like a typo.
Hey, I couldn't actually find anything linking the RLIF's Scott Carter to that Newcastle Knights player before I went ahead and started editing it. Could you? They might not even be the same person :P--Jeff79 (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
No, I haven't found anything. The fact his NZRL bio doesn't mention Newcastle suggests to me that they are different people. Guess we need to split the article? Mattlore (talk) 01:14, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Also his having played for Country NSW. Yeah, just splitting Bios with the same name and notable for the same topic is such a bummer!--Jeff79 (talk) 01:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi there, I see that you've recently created some RL bios, such as Mark Khierallah, but apart from an easily missed RLP link in the infobox, they could be considered by some to be unreferenced, which is in breach of our verifiability and WP:BLP policies. Could you try to ensure that all new bios have a reference to a reliable source, preferably independent of the subject (ie not his club website, but to a newspaper etc). Thanks. The-Pope (talk) 16:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi The Pope. You are right that I spend some of my time creating RL bios, such as Thomas McClymont which I created yesterday. Unfortunately I fail to see your concern with this article. Are you saying that the reference should be made more obvious on the page or are you questioning the source as a reliable one? Regards, Mattlore (talk) 03:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I've seen plenty of cricinfo/nfl bios marked as unrefed because the ref is "hidden" in an infobox, or even put in the Ext links section. I don't agree with that approach, but the best way to avoid any problems is to add an inline ref, even if it is a copy of the one in the box. The-Pope (talk) 03:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Of course you and Degsy laid the ground work by adding those long-missing Kiwis. Doesn't it make it so much easier to add citations for NZ DCIs when you have that tremendous AllBlacks site with so much biographical detail ? Now there are just a few Poms left in the article needing refs. Cheers -Sticks6611:05, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
International flags
Let me clear things up, All teams now have the flagicons as the nation the players is representing lets look at the Lebanese squad http://www.rleague.com/content/article.php?id=40818 Johnny Mannah, Reece Robinson are the most notable NRL players featuring in that team. The idea of having it this way as it is used in other sports such as Rugby union and football and it avoids confusion and plus it makes more sense. Youndbuckerz
Thanks. Its caused a few problems on various rugby league pages and I'm not aware of a change of colours for 2008 so I've raised it with the WP:RL. 21:34, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
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Parlbox
I see that you are updating parlboxes. In my opinion, a start year should link to either the general election article, or the by-election article. If you concur, you might as well add those links whilst you are at it. And good work with all the draft MP pages. Schwede6602:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, its not one of those things I'd edit a page just for but its a nice to have and if I'm editing parlboxes I might as well do it at the same time. Thanks, all I did with the draft pages is the easy bit (format) the hard bit is adding content! Mattlore (talk) 07:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm really happy to see how much activity there is with politics articles. Great to see you chipping in, too. Much appreciated. Schwede6607:40, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
On a related but completely different note, what do you think about the change that seems to be going on from this table of electorate results to this one. I prefer the old format but I guess I can live with the new one as long as the List results stay the way they are. The old table had more information (3rd and 4th placed candidates in each electorate). Mattlore (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
I have a slight preference for the new look, even if there's less info. Eventually, we should have a results table for each election in each electorate, as we are recording them now. Then, all the contenders are listed, and not just an arbitrary number of them. Schwede6618:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Prods reply
Hey, that's ok, I don't have time to go through every individual article and argue a point but the articles that I don't think should be deleted are:
Mark Wade (rugby league) - in the first-grade squad, just signed with the Knights for a fulltime position
Ethan Cook - in the first-grade squad, 2010 NYC Lock of the Year
Sorry to butt in. I've just gotten rid of Dane Cordner as an example. If you ever want to have an article you created deleted, you can tag it with WP:CSD#G7. So long as you are the only author of the article. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:33, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I noticed that you passed Gary Braid as OK. I think this article is in serious need of some tags. Perhaps you could consider revisiting the articles and placing the appropriate templates on it. Thanks. hHppy patrolling! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:46, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
I was in the process of editing it, sorry it should have had an under construction tag on it. Thanks for the heads up. Mattlore (talk) 04:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Sure, but at the time I was busy creating an article that complies with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines so I don't see the problem. Mattlore (talk) 05:11, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
There is no problem and no reason why an editor who has contributed 617 articles (wow!) and looks after countless more needs to be patronised. --Mkativerata (talk) 05:35, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
If that's the case, a more detailed investigation would reveal why this article was at NPP in the first place. My apologies for DTTR, but when I see a page like that at NPP, it's a natural reaction to leave a personal message rather than template the article and and uw the user. A bit of GF all round please :) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:52, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reform New Zealand until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.
talk pages
fyi... I see you creating alot of talk pages. In WikiProject Biography banner, the "priority" parameter is no longer. It has been replaced by sports-priority, musician-priority, etc. Also, you don't need to add "auto=yes", because you are not a bot and the article hasn't been assessed. Bgwhite (talk) 09:44, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi Mattlore, the election is all pretty exciting, but you shouldn't really move unreferenced BLPs into mainspace - they could be deleted on sight. Let's make sure that they have a couple of refs first. Schwede6617:18, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
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