User talk:Iridescent Archive 5

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Iridescent. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Feels weird

Reading this feels odd. — Realist² 20:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Unreal. This one, you probably should contact Mike Godwin (

mgodwin

wikimedia.org) to notify him, since the Times is a significant enough paper that a potential copyvio/derivation from them needs to be looked into. (Aside from anything else, a Times article will become a Reliable Source, so any errors in the article will now be "set in stone"). – iride scent 15:31, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Another admin contacted him. It's also gone live on Jimbo's talk page and I have left an official statement on the MJ talk page obviously. First people were saying it isn't a copy but after I showed evidence they change their tune to "it's no big deal". I and Mr. Jackson himself have received person attacks on Jimbo's page. The Times is no longer a reliable source to use on wikipedia if it makes a direct mirror image of our work without crediting us. I could use their article on any other article relating to MJ. While in this case it's not an issue because the material is accurate, it might not be on other articles they copy and pass as their own. They have presented a mirror image, we might as well be sourcing wikipedia itself. It's also disappointing that they didn't credit us, a missed opportunity for some positive news from a mainstream publication. We get so much criticism, yet the Times thinks it's OK to copy us, they will slag us off in another article, you watch. This has also made me realize that the work I create might have a larger audience than I expected. It's weird. — Realist² 17:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

For background reference on a similar situation (again involving the Times), you might want to read this thread. On this occasion, an article with a hoax edit in it was used, and (until the Times published a retraction) it meant the hoax was "official" as it had been published in a reliable source. – iride scent 16:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Note: for info of anyone not aware, the extended discussion on this subject is here – iride scent 10:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Abigail Toyne

Hi
When working on the notability backlog, I noticed that you had previously marked Abigail Toyne as a copyright violation (see Talk:Abigail Toyne#Copyvio) while actually it's them who violate the GFDL by using Wikipedia material without properly attributing it. Since I didn't find anything in the FAQs myself, do you (or any of your talk page stalkers) know if the Wikimedia Foundation is actually pursuing these things, and if so where to report it?
Thanks & Cheers, Amalthea^Talk 23:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I've no idea, but someone reading this (probably Giggy) will know. Whether WMF would bother chasing down a violation on such a no-importance article is another matter. And well spotted! – iride scent 15:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

In fact, if you want to chase this up legally (I'm not sure it's worth the effort on such a low-profile article) than follow the suggestion I give Realist2 in the thread above, as the cases are similar. – iride scent 20:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that thread. I think I will drop him a line, since all of the pornstar articles on that page seem to have originated here. They can still decide to drop it.
Thanks & Cheers, Amalthea^Talk 11:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, Mike said that the WMF can't take any action there since it doesn't hold the copyright to the articles in question. Which is true of course, I thought that they might still act as some kind of proxy.
Amalthea^Talk 15:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Note: for info of anyone not aware, the extended discussion on this subject is here – iride scent 10:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Just testing?

Hee-hee! (Gaargh, I don't comment frequently at WP:AN, and when I do, people just ignore me anyway... sniff... sob...) Bencherlite ^Talk 00:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Bassboosa

Hello. Please, do not delete my Bassboosa article. I know they're not a big name, but I got references to all data in their page and besides they are one of the biggest bands nowadays in Eastern Europe in terms of airplay. Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bandi669 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:BAND and WP:RS. Wikipedia is not Myspace or a web host, and it's not enough for you to say they're important – you need to include reliable sources to indicate why they're notable enough by Wikipedia standards to warrant their own article. – iride scent 12:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Blind reverts

If you disagree with information benig inserted into an article, please at least check to see what else has been done before doing a blind revert. Here you reverted a WP:DATE fix, and categorisation of the article. You might also want to note that Goal.com is not a reliable source by any stretch of the imagination. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 12:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough and apologies – although I still maintain that a €3.8M transfer is notable (that €10m figure is my error from the fee in Brazilian Reals). – iride scent 12:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Audio sample

Hi Irid, can you make audio samples for songs? I did ask someone else but after already making a number of them for me he didn't reply to this request. I would like one for a michael Jackson song obviously. — Realist² 21:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Creation and usage of media files#Audio and Wikipedia:Music samples are the instructions. You're on your own when it comes to actually doing it. Some of the Commons people might be in a position to help as that's where the sound files are actually hosted. – iride scent 21:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I think I will just keep going around begging for help. — Realist² 21:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

You might try ~~Lara~~ Jennavecia, a lot of music-and-image types hang round her talkpage – iride scent 22:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I plied guilty on all counts. — Realist² 23:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The Unlawful Revert Police will be along shortly to take you for your compulsory re-indoctrination session. Nobody defies The Cabal™ and lives to tell the tale! I will shortly be joining you in wikijail for my relentless campaign of persecution against Wikipedia's dissidents, when the Proletarian Revolution overthrows the corrupt Walesist-Beesleyist ancien regime and its horde of lickspittle SlimVirginal-Postlethwaitist lackeys and fellow travellers. A new Wikipedia, the chains of the masses untied! A new Wikipedia, the voice of the people cannot be denied! – iride scent 00:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it was the nicest response I have ever given, most people would be off my christmas card list if they sent me that. — Realist² 00:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Well done with that... AGF sounds great in theory but when you've dealt with a dozen brand-new accounts adding the exact same unreferenced "fact" in a row, or someone posting over a megabyte of incoherent gibberish which somehow "proves" that you're the most evil thing on teh interwebs and/or the unwitting tool of the Cabal (not that I have anyone in particular in mind) assuming good faith can feel a bit like being ordered at gunpoint to change your religion. I seem to remember that you've been on the receiving end of my assuming bad faith (or at least, its close cousin) once or twice... – iride scent 00:59, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It goes with the territory of being a self confessed Jackson fan. Most people imagine me as naive, stupid or a child. I don't mind being one of the most hated people on wikipedia, (according to the ration of people I bump into). I usually start off really bad with someone then become friendly. I've declared war on a number of people, including admins, hehe, but it all works out. I try to assume good faith more these days, but I still have near zero respect for IP's, they are only a nuisance on the articles I work with. — Realist² 01:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Some IPs are very useful; most are not. Gurch did some analysis at one point that roughly 50% of IP edits are legitimate, but that 90% of vandalism comes from IPs. As I've said before, I see no reason IPs should still be allowed to edit; the 30 seconds it takes to create an account wouldn't create any delay to a genuine editor (even if they wanted to create a fresh account for each edit), while it would be enough to discourage many of the bored children and /b/ mass-attacks.

Not sure being an MJ fan really counts against you. Someone is buying those 750 million albums... If anything, I'd say it makes you less likely to be a child, not more, as he's totally disconnected from the youth market at the moment (anyone under 18-19 won't even remember him as a performer, just as "that weird looking baby-dangling guy who you wouldn't want babysitting your kids"). I think it goes with the territory of being on Wikipedia, not with you in particular; anyone who's ever worked in anything remotely controversial acquires a corona of fruitloops and fuckwits around them. – iride scent 01:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, indeed, someone is buying his records, it's funny how much the media portray him as finished yet his records still go to number one. The media want us to believe he has no fans left, but someone bought 3 million copies of a reissue in 12 weeks. I've been doing the figures, and its clear that Jackson's sales in this decade are very close, if not better, to the sales of Usher and Justin Timberlake. If you add in what his pre 2001 records are still selling he very easily outsells them. Of course sales are only seen from a US perspective, it's only a hit if it's a hit in America. But only 25% of his sales for the past 20 years come from the US. The US music industry amounts to 50% of the market. That means for the past 20 years Jackson has disproportionally been relying on international sales. Ultimately he is the only Western superstar that doesn't need America to generate huge sales. — Realist² 01:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

The only Western superstar that doesn't need America to generate huge sales? – iride scent 01:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, a more interesting one to the list above is Gary Glitter, who despite being an indefensibly wretched specimen of humanity by any possible definition still earns millions in sales & royalties.Note to any outraged fans and/or lawyers – I am not equating or comparing Michael Jackson with Gary Glitter. – iride scent 01:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the word "superstar" is flung around too easily. Your only a superstar when you start to break 100 million albums and most people in the world have heard your name. It makes me want to vomit when I hear people call "Rihanna" a superstar. I would call Rolling Stone, Cliff Richard and Julio Iglesias superstars I guess. I don't know what their US sales are like, probably a lot more than 25 percent. — Realist² 01:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd certainly add Oasis and Robbie Williams/Take That to that list; although neither caused even a ripple in the US, they'd both pass the "would be instantly recognised even by people who don't know their music" test in most of Europe. I've no idea how the Spice Girls's sales break down but I suspect they'd be in the "less than 25% of sales in the US" group as well - and certainly qualify as superstars (Madonna must grind her teeth to see Spice still ahead of anything of hers by total sales). – iride scent 02:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Unbelievable sales of Spice. Still, MJ beat spice 3 times. 4 times if you count HIStory in unit sales. The days of 20+ million are long gone however. — Realist² 02:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

If there's ever a new Pink Floyd album that will reach it; I can't see anyone else doing it today. – iride scent 02:11, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

MJ would have to do something Bad like fake his own death on the day of the album release and hide for about 3 years to rack up the sales. Then at some point he would have to come out and admit it was all planned. Alternatively he could rack up the sales by fucking touring!, no chance of that though. — Realist² 02:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

The really sensible thing would be an Asian tour - the mud never stuck there like it did in the US. A residency in Macau would probably generate more than a residency in Vegas now. – iride scent 02:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Possibly, you might want to put Jade Goody on your watchlist, she was just diagnosed with cancer, no joke. — Realist² 02:29, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Watching. She's so heavily vandalised that I assume plenty of others also watch her. – iride scent 02:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

So far, she's remaining startlingly unvandalised. Incidentally, what's even more impressive about the sales of the Thriller reissue is that – given that it's the highest selling etc etc etc – presumably most of those purchasers already owned it and were buying it just for the bonus tracks. – iride scent 15:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally... A Startling Fact

Have just noticed that this was my 75,000th edit. Frighteningly, I am only 1 place behind MiszaBot III on the high-score table for the Wikipedia MMORPG. – iride scent 03:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

And, poor Image:Arikvivigj8.jpg had the dubious honour today of being my 1800th deletion... – iride scent 03:57, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

75,000th, I won't be here that long. — Realist² 04:51, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

75,000 isn't quite as impressive as it sounds; there's a lot of rollbacks and recategorisations in there – iride scent 04:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Modest. I have 23,000 but I've only been here since the end of May 2007. I guess thats quite a lot for the time period. I use my sandbox a lot, I write whole articles in it sometimes. I mostly build articles and maintain WP:MJJ and WP:JANET (I created the second one). Then theres all the GA/FA/PR reviewing. I've started doing AfD's recently (cleaning out the bad articles in the wikiprojects), nominating rather than commenting. I'm not sure where im going next. Useight is going to coach me soon, isn't that scary. — Realist² 05:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

If you're doing bulk AfDs and you have Firefox installed, then if you haven't already get on over to WP:TW and install Twinkle. The Twinkle XfD tool is one piece of Wikipedia automation that really does pay its way; just click on "xfd" at the top, select a topic, type the deletion reason into the box and press the button; the AfD set up, appropriately del-sorted, links to any previous AfDs on the topic automatically added to the discussion, the article creator notified and directed to the discussion, and the AfD discussion added to your watchlist, all with a single click. – iride scent 16:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I installed it, damn it's a sexy tool, everything I could need. Cheers. — Realist² 17:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait until you pass an RFA and find the Twinkle d-batch button winking seductively at you from the top of every page – it not only deletes the page you're currently on, but every page that page links to. A hundred bonus points to anyone who can think of a single legitimate use for this particular tool. – iride scent 17:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Now your suggesting that I might pass an RfA one day, lol, we have come a long way. Remember the good old days. Funny how things change, I think that's a good aspect of wikipedia. People are usually prepared to forget grudges. — Realist² 17:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

To a point. There are some people who don't get forgiven by The ~~Cabal~~ Community no matter what (see here for a particularly glaring example), and plenty of users between whom relations have broken down beyond repair (cue Malleus).

I would give my usual warning though; RFA doesn't give you any more status, and means that your talkpage always looks like, well, this. – iride scent 17:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

← Actually, there's one automated tool which I'll really endorse as the most useful non-specialist tool of all (as a specialised tool, Huggle undoubtedly is champion); the much-underrated AWB. It's not exactly friendly, but I keep finding new non-obvious uses for it. – iride scent 19:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Section break: Landmark edits and Risker the cat

Is there a tool to find these special edit milestones? –xeno (talk) 16:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Here you go.[1] Risker (talk) 16:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

'preciate it. don't forget to sign into the talk page stalker registration book ↓ down there. cheers =) –xeno (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Risker's not a stalker, she's a visitor – her turning up on a talkpage is the Wikipedia equivalent of being adopted by next door's cat. – iride scent 16:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC) note: that was intended in the sense of "cute and fluffy thing coming to visit you", not "steals your food and pees on your chair" – iride scent

Breathes sigh of relief. Although it's been a while since I've been called "cute and fluffy". :-) Risker (talk) 17:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you're very cute and fluffy. And possibly steal food and pee on the couch. (To briefly revive the "how editors picture each other" thread that graced WP:AN/K a couple of weeks ago, I picture you as a cross between Alanis Morrisette and John Lennon). – iride scent 18:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

You'd be shocked how accurate that assessment is. Ermm...except for the peeing on the couch part, I don't usually do that. ;-) Risker (talk) 23:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Or, go to your preferences to get your editcount (or take it direct from toolserver) and count backwards. – iride scent 17:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Trinity Life Center

LOL! I was debating whether to replace the speedy tag removed by the article creator or go with a prod. :) --Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

File:Wiccan ritual.PNG

A rare glimpse into the WikiCult initiation ceremony.

Hell, it could be notable for all I know... My instinct with anyone's first page, unless it's blatant spam, is always prod/AfD as opposed to speedy; that way, they have the chance to ask what was wrong with the article and think of ways to improve it, rather than go away with the "Wikipedia is run by a bunch of elitist assholes who delete articles without explanation" impression. (Which is, of course, true, but people can find that out for themselves after they've been recruited into the WikiCult). – iride scent 17:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Same here -- if I'd encountered it cold, I probably would have either just tagged for notability or possibly prodded after a gsearch. The only thing that put speedy in my mind was the improper removal of the prior speedy tag by the article creator. It just struck me as funny that you changed it to prod in less time than I spent waivering between prod and speedy. (When do we get our WikiRobes from the WikiCult? Or do the flowing robes only come when we reach elitist asshole rank? And should I sign your wikistalker section if I'm only watching your page for the duration of this conversation?)--Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:51, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, feel free to sign the stalker-thingy – my intention is to get a rough snapshot of the week or so until it auto-archives. Anyway, people "briefly" watchlisting this page have a habit of staying to watch the trainwrecks. (Where else do you get Nazi cats, Australian pornography, and a soundclip of User:Persian Poet Gal reading the text of WP:NOR?) BTW, not to direct people towards WP:BADSITES which are, obviously, a Very Bad Thing, but googling "Wikicult" throws up a remarkable soup of disgruntled ex-Arbs, trolls and loons. Which is which, I leave as an exercise for the reader. – iride scent 18:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if any TPSs want a challenge, get Trinity Life Center up to a keepable status by the time the prod closes. – iride scent 13:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

no takers then... – iride scent 19:23, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Warrent a warning for disruption or something?

Annoying. — Realist² 18:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Borderline – but I'm less than impressed by this offering. I don't think he warrants a warning – yet – but I suspect he'll be talking to us via {{unblock}} fairly soon if he doesn't calm down. – iride scent 18:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes I checked all his edits, I couldn't figure out if he was being anti Semitic or not so I just left it. I think his dubious votes should be removed. — Realist² 18:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

In fact, if any TPSs want to go through his contributions there's some "unusual" stuff in there. Anyone who's ever interacted with Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles will probably be as startled as he to discover that he's a member of the deletionist cabal.

I wouldn't worry too much about his disruptive voting - the closers will hopefully have the sense to disregard them. My instincts say /b/tard, but my AGF says "new user who doesn't know the ropes". – iride scent 18:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Holy shit though. I'm saving that diff. LG said delete and is accused of being a deletionist? Was that a pig that just flew by, on it's way to an ice skating party in Hades? Someone go speedy close that thing! It must be non-notable! Keeper ǀ 76 18:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought he was a new user, but he spits out wikilinks to policy too well to be a newbie, unless I was just a retarded fish face when I started. — Realist² 18:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, he's not a new user. Only a matter of time before it's figured out which old user he is. And you're not a fish face. (zing!!!!!). Keeper ǀ 76 18:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

My Wiki brah/JeanLatore detector is twitching, put it that way... – iride scent 18:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Filed. –xeno (talk) 18:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Probably not enough to warrant a checkuser yet – no Miami edits or sexual harassment – but see if Alison's in a good mood today. Not For Fishing and all that, but it's certainly someone. – iride scent 19:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

The disruptive voting, drug reference and "dude" are enough for me. The only thing that I'm confused about is the account was registered Aug 8, it should've came up in the last CU. –xeno (talk) 19:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

And I just sit back and watch? No fun, oh well I have pop corn in the cupboard and there aint nothing on TV. — Realist² 19:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

←The computer says no. Anyone else want to play supersleuth? – iride scent 20:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hrm, either its not him or he's getting better at evading CU. –xeno (talk) 20:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

The latter – iride scent 22:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Rangeblocked for 3 months. Everyone, go back to watching Florida articles in mid-November... – iride scent 19:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for participation in User:Abd/RfC

Because my participation as a Wikipedia editor has been questioned, and if I continue as I have in the past, I can expect future challenges as well, I have begun a standing RfC in my user space, at User:Abd/RfC. There is also a specific incident RfC at User:Abd/RfC/8.11.08 block. I understand that you may not have time to participate directly; however, if you wish to be notified of any outcome from the general or specific RfC, or if you wish to identify a participant or potential participant as one generally trusted by you, or otherwise to indicate interest in the topic(s), please consider listing yourself at User:Abd/RfC/Proxy Table, and, should you so decide, naming a proxy as indicated there. Your designation of a proxy will not bind you, and your proxy will not comment or vote for you, but only for himself or herself; however, I may consider proxy designations in weighing comment in this RfC, as to how they might represent the general community. You may revoke this designation at any time. This RfC is for my own guidance as to future behavior and actions, it is advisory only, upon me and on participants. This notice is going to all those who commented on my Talk page in the period between my warning for personal attack, assumptions of bad faith, and general disruption, on August 11, 2008, until August 20, 2008. This is not a standard RfC; because it is for my advice, I assert authority over the process. However, initially, all editors are welcome, even if otherwise banned from my Talk space or from the project. Canvassing is permitted, as far as I'm concerned; I will regulate participation if needed, but do not spam. Notice of this RfC may be placed on noticeboards or wikiprojects, should any of you think this appropriate; however, the reason for doing this in my user space is to minimize disruption, and I am not responsible for any disruption arising from discussion of this outside my user space. Thanks for considering this. --Abd (talk) 02:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

This will seem rude, and it's not meant to be, but in my opinion a request for comment is superfluous; there is nothing to comment on. There is no conspiracy to suppress The Truth. There is no conspiracy to prevent you defending new users from being persecuted. You were not blocked in a last-ditch attempt by the Ancien Régime to hold back the inevitable triumph of your system for reordering Wikipedia.

You were warned that if you carried on making unfounded accusations you'd be blocked. You carried on making unfounded accusations. You were blocked.

If you want to waste yet more of your time with your "Juan Perón of Wikipedia" "only I can save the project from the forces of The Cabal and those who stand against me must be made to see the light" routine, go right ahead. I have no intention of wasting any more of mine. Should by some chance you, or any participant in this "discussion", make a valid point, I'm sure somebody will let me know. – iride scent 18:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to comment here, Iridescent. I have no intention of arguing this here, this response is simply a reflection of the courtesy of your response to my invitation.

You have said that there is nothing to comment on. I don't think that's true, but I'm not ready to pursue WP:DR beyond preliminary examination in my own user space. You blocked me for one set of reasons, and in my unblock request, I addressed those specific reasons. However, I was warned for different behavior, and the RfC has started by addressing only the warning, first. Issues easily get mixed, impressions from one incident get mixed up with impressions from another, and so I'm just starting at the beginning. I was warned for making one edit. See User:Abd/RfC/8.11.08 block; there is enough there to quickly see it. A record of my relevant edits before the block is at User:Abd/RfC/8.11.08 block/Evidence, but you don't need to look at that. As far as any question raised so far in this RfC, your block hasn't been examined. Just the warning on which you based your block when asked. I'm aware that there were other warnings, I'll get to them. But if that first warning was proper and correct, then the whole thing is over very quickly. I'll apologize for the fuss, and get on with whatever comes next, and mere technical objections to what happened later, I'd consider moot.

There is nothing in this RfC about a "conspiracy to suppress the truth." However, you have repeated above that I made "unfounded accusations." I don't think I made any accusations at all, beyond what was established to be true. I never "accused" Fritzpoll of being Fredrick day. From the beginning of my comment on the Fredrick day trolling, I wrote that the impression of sock puppetry could be Fredrick day doing his usual, so if there was an accusation there, it wasn't an ordinary one, it was simply noting the kind of suspicion that is normal when a sock appears and says "I'm so-and-so, registered editor" in the presence of any other reason to suspect it might be true. And there was another reason, the sudden and never-explained "retirement," which resembled a characteristic action of Fredrick day. There are other problems as well; for example, I had responded to warning, and edits which you cited as being accusations were the opposite. Presumably, all this will be examined, in detail and carefully, in the RfC. I only need the participation of one other experienced editor, for this to work. I might do much better than that. The purpose of the RfC is to advise me, but a consensus developed there will be a real consensus, assuming good faith. A real consensus among a relatively small number of editors. Do we have anything else around here? What happens then is up to these editors and the rest of the community. I am not Don Quixote, I prefer to let windmills do their work.

What I really think, not to put too fine a point on it, is that Wikipedia process, under some conditions, sucks. The topic ban from DYK for Wilhelmina Will was a very good example. I pointed it out. I pointed out how it could easily be resolved, no fuss. Eventually Fritzpoll did what I'd have done next, if he hadn't gone to AN over the matter, without any necessity. And eventually the community concluded, unanimously, that WW should be unbanned, though she hadn't really changed, she made one request for help, that's all. If I had not intervened, in several ways, to allow her to feel that the community cared, I think she'd be gone. We would have lost a quite good and productive editor, over a few mistakes, blown up by a quite new editor who seemed inclined to harass -- and who disappeared once all this started to come out.

There is no Cabal, as such. There is only the default condition of nature that will exist until the community wakes up. I can't change it, the most I can do is to catalyze it. You are quite right: I can't do it alone. Part of what I'm trying to do is to find out who is around who might be able to help. I have no prejudice about that, and, should you decide to do so, your participation in the RfC remains welcome. And you are also welcome to abstain, and I have no idea which is best for the project. I probably won't be back here to your Talk until I have some clear advice from the community. --Abd (talk) 23:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Even though I'm not watching your pseudo-RFC and have no intention of reading it, you appear to have spammed your "invitation" onto at least 20 pages on my watchlist. As far as I can see virtually all of the responders have given you this advice with varying degrees of politeness, but I'll give it again: the community is never going to wake up. You are here (I assume you don't deny) primarily to use Wikipedia as a proving ground for your pet electoral theory. If you go to WP:5 – those few policies which are universally accepted as minimum behaviour standards for editing here – and click on the very first link in the very first pillar, you'll come to Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy or any other political system. Its primary method of determining consensus is through editing and discussion, not voting. If you don't understand that, then this is not the site for you.

You are not going to change anyone's mind on this; you are only going to waste your own time and the time of the ever-shrinking circle who still read your posts. – iride scent 20:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a communist everybody=everybody concept, and delegable proxy=the politburo. Been there, done that comrades :) BMW(drive) 17:33, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Revert on my User page

just wanted to say thanks for reverting vandalism on my user page.Alexnia (talk) 16:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

More than welcome... – iride scent 20:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

MJ images

Do you have any ideas how to get any more picks of MJ on the article then? We really need a Dangerous era picture and a recent picture. The free use thing just isn't happening. — Realist² 00:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

As I said (somewhere, can't remember where) you could probably make a fair use case for images of him through his career as his change in appearance, clothing and surgery-wise, are both significant subjects of discussion. Something to do if you haven't already is post a request at fan-club mailing lists or Flickr to see if you can find someone who'll release copyright; because of Wikipedia's Google ranking, you can offer people the chance to have their (credited) photo being one of the most seen images on the net – and the top result on a Google Image search on MJ – which to an aspiring photographer could be valuable advertising as well as a boost to vanity. As Jimbo says, he's been one of the most photographed men on the planet for 30 years; the pictures are bound to be out there. – iride scent 01:00, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I've ransacked flickr twice already and I have a contact that runs a fan site, no luck there. Just gunno have to put up with that council house look as the main picture. Alternatively the statue could replace it. I don't care anyway, the free image thing is a joke at this point. I'm not of the opinion you can really understand Jackson's persona without pictures or video anyway. Most people probably read the article and still can't understand what all the fuss was/is about. I'm being coached by Useight by the way, I'm a little nerves to tell you the truth, but it's a learning experience. — Realist² 01:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Just a thought – and I know nothing about California copyright law – but are there any police photos of him from the trials that have been released into the public domain? – iride scent 01:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Have no idea, you would think the fans would have photo's of that, but none have showed up. I wish I lived in America. He turns the big 50 in a few day's, I'm sure he would be out and about. — Realist² 01:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Would the White House one not be better? I know it's older, but it's far closer to what the average reader would consider "the typical Michael Jackson look". – iride scent 02:27, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I had to look at that white house picture for 8 months straight, to be honest, when a vandal slipped his mugshot in the change in scenery was nice. I suppose I could think it over, I don't like the picture that's there now either. I always thought the super bowl what best, I think that was the height of his fame/power outside the US. Never to me though. — Realist² 02:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at this and Bsrboys talk page. Looks like we have trouble today, article I work on might need protecting. — Realist² 16:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Theresa's right; /b/ vandalism is annoying but you just have to tune it out as background noise. Responding to them just encourages them. – iride scent 15:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

James Clement (Survivor contestant)

Since you deleted the page which was not notable. Can you please lock as full-protection to recreate this page from registered users. --ApprenticeFan (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Creation protection is only used in a few circumstances, and this certainly isn't one on them. – iride scent 16:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

A favour

Can I ask a a favour from you if you have the time. Can you please carry out a peer review of the British National Party article. as you are a disinterested party and know the policies and guidelines of wikipedia. Many thanks Lucy-marie (talk) 12:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes but I can't promise when it will be. Note to anyone else watching this page; if anyone else uninvolved can take a look, so much the better, as a subject like this could probably do with as many eyes as possible on it. – iride scent 12:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

For info of anyone who does want to have a look at this one, the article's at British National Party. – iride scent

Just a quick note that I haven't forgotten this! – iride scent 14:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Huggle, again (yawn)

Every so often I type "huggle" into the search box and find what has been said about it recently, mainly because people seem to prefer discussing problems on each others' talk pages to reporting them to me. (So yeah, you can't utter the word 'huggle' around here without me hearing it). Thus I found this thread:

...

Huggle block; I thought it was set not to indefblock IPs? – iride scent 12:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

And that's exactly why I don't use Huggle to do any admin work. Useight (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You've heard my opinion on the matter - I don't personally think Huggle should have any admin tools enabled (when I see pages speedy-deleted 30 seconds after creation I cringe) but I don't think Consensus agrees. – iride scent 18:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

...

Unless there's some bug I can't reproduce, Huggle defaults to a 24 hour block for anonymous users and an indefinite block for user accounts. The administrator is, however, able to change this before blocking, on the assumption that they know what they are doing. If you like, I could disallow "indefinite" as a block expiry time for anonymous users. (If it's any reassurance to you, Huggle's block function actually makes quite a few checks that MediaWiki doesn't do when you use Special:Blockip, so if anything it ought to be 'safer') -- Gurch (talk) 23:24, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what happened on this one (as I said in that thread, I knew from experience that it defaults to 24h for IPs). Unless it's a bug (in which case it's certainly no bug I ever saw) I assume the admin manually overtyped the block length. I don't see any reason to prevent it - there might be reasons for it. I deliberately didn't stick with that thread because I was already in "debate" with the admin in question over another rather trigger-happy block. At the end of the day, the bugs in Huggle do almost all seem to be ironed out; the problems now are caused by problem users not problem software. – iride scent 23:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah well, fair enough. Still, at least now I know you think Huggle's admin tools should be removed, something you neglected to mention before :) -- Gurch (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I promise, Idon't sit round thinking of problems with Huggle! (I think the original conversation between me and Useight on the subject was on Keeper's talkpage, so you probably missed it in the general chaos of that page). I don't really necessarily think they should be removed altogether - as with the incorrect reverts, it's a case of how many false positives one considers acceptable. I'd strongly endorse setting it to force admins to watch the talkpage of anyone they block, though. – iride scent 14:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'm going to retract the part about my being opposed to blocking within Huggle, having just done a 200+ edit test-run and finding no problem at all with the block system. I do think forced watchlisting of anything blocked from within Huggle should be implemented, though. – iride scent 20:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Fraserburgh article

Fit wye iv you ditched ma sma changes? Am fae the Broch an spik i doric ivry day, si a ken fit am spiken aboot! Can I ask ye to revert fit yiv deen?

Why have you deleted my small changes? I'm from Fraserburgh and speak doric every day, so I know what I'm speaking about! Can I ask you to revert what you have done?

86.160.241.96 (talk) 16:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You're right - entirely my fault. Grovelling apologies for that, it shouldn't have been reverted; you're quite right. – iride scent 16:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Huggle

You are responsible for you actions with Huggle. Please read all revisions you make, as your revision to Oil price increases since 2003 inserted a political ad with no relevance to the article as well as a list of US congressional bills which had nothing to do with market speculation. 98.235.103.32 (talk) 18:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

As you're no doubt aware, I'm more than usually familiar with what is and isn't an appropriate use of Huggle and rollback. Reverting the unexplained deletion of content which is clearly not a "political advert" of any kind is, I can assure you, an appropriate use of both. The four other people who have also reverted your edits appear to agree. Your argument here, which I assume you're basing your edit-warring on, is your personal opinion and does not give you the right to revert everyone who disagrees with you. You're already well over the 3RR limit; if you carry on edit-warring over this I will block you. – iride scent 18:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Huggle is for fighting vandalism. This isn't vandalism, and so reverting with no discussion is not the proper use of Huggle (from the Huggle page). The fact that this keeps getting redone by users who have never edit that page seconds after it is reverted proves that they aren't reading what's being done. And yes, some statement McCain said in a speech at some point which has no basis in economic theory (see financial speculation section earlier in the article) is most certainly a political advertisement. The remainder of the section is a list of bills having NOTHING to do with financial speculation... they were written a year before the public even knew that financial speculation existed in the petroleum market and have more to do with oil company profits and taxes. 98.235.103.32 (talk) 18:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

If you insist on playing wikilawyer... Huggle is an automation of the rollback process, and rollback is for "unproductive edits, including vandalism". The unexplained deletion of content against consensus is, as far as I'm concerned, clearly in that category. Your edit summary appeared – and still appears – to be misleading. Of the four paragraphs you removed, one was an uncontroversial mention that there had been government proposals to stabilise the market; one was a short quote from McCain; one was a list of US legislation that had been brought forward, all of which are, whatever you might say, directly relevant to the article, and one was about the passing of the NOPEC Act, again directly relevant. The only one of those four you could make a valid case for removing would be the McCain speech, although I personally would say that, given the political timing, any commitments McCain or Obama make will have direct impact on the markets.

This article has many problems, notably IMO too sharp a focus on the impact on US consumers and far too little on demand management, but the addition of these four paragraphs was not one of them. – iride scent 18:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

So, in effect, what you are saying is that you will accept a revert, if it is not from huggle? Since you are quoting rules, did you read the WP:3RR? No it is not covered in the exceptions either.I reverted it because you had deleted the section on 4 separate occasions. ChiragPatnaik (talk) 18:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

User:170.35.224.64

What a headache. There is an RfA candidate who is failing because he opposes IP'S. Who can blame him lol. — Realist² 18:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Only seems to be making one or two edits a day and at least looks like it's trying to help. There are a lot worse. – iride scent 19:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: My user talk and Firearms Unit

Please can you see my talk and then the page firearms unit, I need someone to act as a moderator. The man says he's a police officer. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 19:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You won't like this, but if this is the revert in question I think he's in the right; you seem to have based your rewrite on outdated books, and on official websites which are often deliberately (or accidentally) inaccurate. Some that are jumping out at me are:

Not all forces have a two year probation period and not all have a four year service requirement for firearms;
ARVs have no particular resemblance to a US SWAT team;
"Criminals are unlikely to carry firearms due to United Kingdom gun laws, and the presence of an armed officer can be enough to negotiate their surrender" is pure original research;
"A high ranking officer such as Chief Inspector or Superintendents can give the order for Authorised Firearms Officers to draw firearms from the secure cabinet in the boot of the Armed Response Vehicle" is outdated and incorrect – although this was procedure way-back-when it has not been the case for many years;
"In response to the 7 July 2005 London bombings the order was given that police firearms officers "shoot to kill" instead of aiming at the central mass to incapacitate" is not only untrue, it is a politically motivated statement which I assume you've taken from a campaign-group website; while there is a set of rules for dealing with possible person-borne explosive incidents (Operation Kratos/Operation Andromeda), they date from long before the 2005 bombings;
"Specialized" is an American-only spelling and inappropriate for an article in British English on a British topic.

Sorry; I know it's not what you want to hear, but I think the other editor is in the right on this one. – iride scent 19:58, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

When I write about the high ranking police officers... this is all about when this was the case. And I know it dont happens now, I will fixed the things concerned would that be better? Plus, I wasnt really hoping for any answer in particular its just that I am here to help Wikipedia not upset people or get upset by people, if that was my gole I would go to a place that helps people looking for that, I just thought I should sought your advice to you being pretty up on Wikipedias policy, plus I respect you. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 20:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Please, don't think anyone's out to get you and apologies if I (or anyone) is coming across as patronising. As someone said on your talk, you both seem to have valid things to add to this one. Be at least slightly careful, though, as some of your additions are undoubtedly inaccurate, in particular, "shoot-to-kill" is a very sensitive topic. – iride scent 20:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

No not at all, the above passage was not relating to you. It was just a general thing about Haboken, I'm sorry if it was written in a way that seemed against you. Furthermore, I have deleted/tweaked what you brought up in an effort to keep everyone happy, based on your suggestions. If you wouldnt mind having a look that would be great, thanks. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 20:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a look when I get the chance, but I won't get involved in editing; there's too much of a potential COI (not in terms of bias, but in terms of adding/removing content based on experience rather than sources). It's actually harder to write about what you do know than about what you don't. – iride scent 20:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

In your personal opinion, do you actually think that character was an officer. Its just that my first insticnt told me no, because surely if you was a professional police officer, you would not use that in a petty discussion over the internet, unless you had been threatened by violence or something like that, what do you think if you dont mind me asking? Thanks, Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 20:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it's reasonably likely; they have a history of edits to Derbyshire Constabulary. A lot of police officers do edit Wikipedia (and often don't have the common sense to log on when vandalising Wikipedia or inserting biased material – see these fine offerings by the supposed "intelligence" unit that is the Central Communications Command, or these contributions from the Wandsworth Parks Police for example). Whether s/he is or isn't a police officer shouldn't make any difference as to how we judge their edits – "but I'm an expert in the subject" is generally said shortly before being blocked for edit-warring. – iride scent 20:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Iredescent, you have been a great help =] Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 20:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

By the way, due to me wanting to join the Ministry of Defence Police I am think of writing to them and seeing if they'll have me for a day. I'd never thought of it before, but where I volunteer an ex-MDP officer come in and we was talking about all that, and he said 9/10 they'll let me. What do you think? Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 20:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Without knowing you I can't really judge. Military policing is a fairly thankless job – mostly Doors, Posts & Gates work – so you've probably a better chance with them than with a "normal" police force – but don't expect the variety or excitement. Obviously, if you're not 100% sure you'll pass security clearance, don't bother applying as they're vetted more thoroughly. The other thing you might want to consider is becoming a PCSO or Special – the entry procedure is a lot easier, and it gives you a "taste" of the job before you decide whether to commit to it. – iride scent 21:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of Internap Network Services Corporation

Internap Network Services Corporation is a public Internet service company and it's fairly well known (eg among the NANOG crowd, which contains a lot of big names in that industry), and has been around since 1996. To avoid conflict of interest, I introduced it explicitly as a stub and was very careful not to place advert-style text on the article, allowing others to add to it. Could this deletion please be reversed?

(Since I can't CheckUser the nominating party, I'm wondering if it may have been a representative of another company in the same industry who nominated it for CSD A7.) Todd Vierling (talk) 19:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The full text of that article read "Internap Network Services Corporation (informally Internap) is a public Internet-based product and service company headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia. Internap's headquarters office occupies most of the Bridge level of the American Cancer Society Center." By all means feel free to recreate it – it's not protected against recreation – but that was deleted correctly as the article contained no assertion of notability. – iride scent 20:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

riot grrrl

i'm sorry you mistook my edits as vandalism. if you read the interview or search the article history, you'll find i was simply restoring the full quote.:)80.42.12.4 (talk) 21:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

On checking the history, you're quite right; apologies for that! – iride scent 21:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Reverting my edit

Hey there! You reverted my edit here. I hope you to read Wikipedia:Removing warnings. "Removing warnings for vandalism from one's talk page is also considered vandalism. However, after a reasonable time has elapsed, archiving one's talk page, including the vandal warning, is acceptable. Editors may be subject to a minor block for archiving prematurely so as to hide warnings.". Thank you. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems it's not accepted to delete warnings. Ilyushka88 (talk) 22:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Just as an addition: Sorry I made a mistake and accidentally added the warnings back before talking with you first. My mistake. Won't happen again. Ilyushka88 (talk) 22:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I can read it well enough to see the This Wikipedia page is currently inactive and is retained as a historical archive at the top, and the fact that this was never policy but was a failed proposal that was rejected more than two years ago. I can also read the actual policy and WP:DRRC. Please don't restore content a user removed from their own userpages, other than current block notices. – iride scent 22:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I didn't notice the fact that it was failed proposal. I need glasses. Ilyushka88 (talk) 22:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Not to worry, we all make mistakes (see most of the posts above yours, pointing out mine)... – iride scent 23:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Travis Oscarson

I actually appreciate where you pointed me. I was just trying to add the official bio of one of the hosts of a Reelzchannel show. I'm not bothered if it's taken down as I'm still learning the process and appreciate your advice. Much enjoyed reading your pages. cheers!--Amyreelz (talk) 04:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

An update

There has been an update to a summary you have endorsed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Majorly#View by Jennavecia. Jennavecia ^(Talk) 05:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Help

Can you give me some help and advice in dealing with User:The Rambling Man as the user is currently doing my head in and making wikipedia not a place that edits are wanting to be made by myself.--Lucy-marie (talk)

~~What is he doing? (I can't see anything from him on your talkpage). I know him vaguely from Norwich City F.C. and haven't ever seen him doing anything I'd consider particularly out of line.~~

If he's doing something that's specifically enforcing policy, as opposed to pushing his particular view of how an article should look, then assume he's probably correct; he's one of the 12 bureaucrats on Wikipedia, which means that, while he's not necessarily any better at writing articles, he's broadly trusted when it comes to interpreting policy. – iride scent 14:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Have found the conversation I assume you mean in your archive; I won't have time to go over the whole thing today but I'll run through it tomorrow & see what's going on. – iride scent 14:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Know me from NCFC? How rude, I feel I should take a shower right away... ;-) The Rambling Man (talk) 15:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, here's my attempt at being a unilateral Arbcom:

On having a quick skim through what I assume is the problem – from here to the end of that archive – it looks to me like this is what happened:

You accidentally moved some pages to incorrect titles (fpptball, autmn);
TRM noticed that and started checking your other moves;
TRM noticed a bunch of football/association football/soccer related moves, disagreed with them and reverted them;
The pair of you started editwarring and both of you started to get increasingly snarky in your edit summaries;
TRM, rather bitily, left you a template message intended for new editors.

With the strong disclaimer that I haven't read any of the discussions relating to the redirects that took place anywhere other than on User talk:Lucy-marie, if any; my take on the above points, in order, would be:

You were clearly wrong moving things to typos (fpptball etc) and I assume you don't object to TRM (or anyone) pulling you up on that particular issue.
I don't think it's unreasonable/stalking for TRM to have gone through your other moves once he'd noticed you making mistakes, to check you hadn't made any others – it's the same situation as when you were being attacked by Canterberry and his socks and EdJogg & I went through his contribution history checking if anything needed reverting.
This is where it gets into personal opinion, as to whether "football", "soccer" or "association football" is the best name to use. My personal opinion is that, although "football" is an ambiguous term (especially given that Wikipedia is an American website), there are enough people on Wikipedia who use it as a synonym for "association football" that it needed at the very least to be discussed at WikiProject Football, since any move would create such a huge number of double-redirects. There's a second issue here as well in that the positions (striker, midfielder) were terminology that isn't used in American football, rugby, Aussie rules etc so there wasn't a confusion to clear up – although I do agree with you that standardisation is generally a good thing and it would have been messy to move some positions but not others.
Neither of you seem to come out with much credit in the editwar afterwards. You both should have gone straight off to WT:FOOTY to discuss this rather than snipe at and threaten each other. In particular, TRM shouldn't have started threatening blocks quite so early, and LM should have gone off to get a third opinion on the matter far earlier.
This wasn't very helpful by TRM who at no point (that I can see) had actually explained to you properly what the problem with your edit summaries was.

My conclusion on the whole thing would be: yes I agree TRM seems to have acted a bit snappier than the situation warranted, and you probably deserve at least some kind of apology and "I'll be nicer". However, I don't think he was wrong in reverting you or asking you to stop. WP:BOLD is in general a good thing, but it cuts both ways; you're perfectly entitled to take bold actions, but other people are perfectly entitled to undo them.

As per your metrication of UK distances last year and the kerfluffle that caused, sometimes there are good reasons for things to be in a non-standard format, and for anything that's going to affect articles that are worked on by a large number of people, it's always good practice to discuss it with the people who will be most affected by the change. You (LM) do do a lot of good things, but you sometimes insist on what you consider to be the right view, even when most of those affected appear to disagree with you (WP:24, WP:UKT, WP:SKYSCR etc). It never hurts to ask other people, and sometimes there are good reasons for things to be the way they are, even when it's not obvious.

Hell, sometimes there isn't a good reason for things to be the way they are but people still insist on it; that's both the biggest problem with Wikipedia, and the reason Wikipedia is one of the most successful websites of all time, and the reason Wikipedia works while Citizendium, Knol, MyWikiBiz and all the other wannabees are failing; Wikipedia's structure does cause some arbitrary value-judgements to become set-in-stone policies for no good reason, but it also forces people to collaborate even when they don't agree.

Now both of you, go do some work well away from each other! – iride scent 16:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm waiting for an apology for being linked to NCFC... ! Good analysis, all fair from my perspective. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

(And just a quick resp to your point 5, I guess I over-reacted to the fact that the only edit summary that LM had provided during this was to have a dig at me... but you're right again, pointy and unhelpful as I'm sure it won't make any difference... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC))

A further suggestion

A further suggestion, only tangentially related to this particular issue; I think the root cause of the problems you (LM) have historically had on Wikipedia stem from the facts that you tend to do lots of little-bitty edits spread across a large number of articles, and that your interests tend to be shared by large numbers of other people, many of whom get very heated (politics, architecture, popular TV programmes etc). Something you might be better suited to is, instead of making strings of edits to high-traffic articles that then get reverted and land you in arguments, pick a few important-but-obscure subjects on which we either don't have articles or only have a low-quality stub, and work on expanding them. Doing this has a lot of benefits:

The obscure articles are where Wikipedia really shines. No matter how good our article on Michael Jackson gets, for example, people will always be able to find information about him of a comparable quality on the other encyclopedias; for someone wanting to find out who obscure early-80s punk singer Beki Bondage was, on the other hand, Wikipedia is the only significant source.
The less-trafficked articles tend to be more stable, and give you something to point at and say "I did that". Were I to do a total rewrite of Buckingham Palace, for example, within days it would be edited to shreds by a horde of others. My (much maligned) Broadwater Farm article, on the other hand, is now the primary online source for information about the area (and the only thing a Google search throws up that isn't either about events 20 years ago, or council vanispam). Even though BP gets 68000 hits a month while BWFE only gets 1700, there's a satisfaction in knowing that it's my article they're reading.
Obscure pages are generally easier to work on without being hassled and give more leeway to do things "your way". If you work on high-profile big articles, you have to put up with insanity like this all the time; if you work on relatively minor things, people tend to leave you alone. The aforementioned Broadwater Farm article is, fairly notoriously (read the talkpage) a living, breathing example of how to write an article whilst totally ignoring the Manual of Style; were one to apply WP:IAR and WP:BOLD to this extent on an article "owned" by a project I'd be ripped to shreds (as you've repeatedly found out), whereas here, people leave you alone if you can make a valid case for "I think it's better this way", and you're not constantly fending off the self-proclaimed style police and their "zOMG you put the footnotes before the punctuation!" and "oh noez you forced an image width to over 200 pixels!" screechings.
Article writing isn't anywhere near as hard as it looks. This expansion was done in about 25 minutes, entirely from a google search, to prove a point to someone who said Skipton railway station was too dull to ever be expanded into a viable article, despite my never having been there and knowing nothing of the subject.

The article writers do tend to give off an air of arrogance and sometimes give the impression that they look down on the formatters, vandal-fighters etc, but it really isn't anywhere near as hard as it looks. From experience, I know that you are a pretty good writer; you just tend to throw yourself into areas where other people come into conflict with you and revert you. My advice would be to ignore the "nuts and bolts" side of formatting, spellchecking etc – there are thousands of others doing that – and to work on getting a couple of substantive Good Articles under your belt. Aside from anything else, people will generally take any arguments you make far more seriously if you have a solid list of contributions you can point to – that's why you always used to lose the permanent arguments with One Night In Hackney, regardless of which of you was actually "right". If you haven't already, I'd urge you to read Giano's article-writing essay; although it's aimed at the Featured Article crowd (who I generally steer well clear of – I've never once worked on an FA and doubt I ever will), if you follow it in general you can't really go wrong. – iride scent 15:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The article writers do tend to give off an air of arrogance and sometimes give the impression that they look down on the formatters, vandal-fighters etc, but it really isn't anywhere near as hard as it looks. - Realist is taking his blood pressure pills. LOL. — Realist² 17:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

No, it really isn't hard. Researching can be hard, weighing opposing sources can be very hard, and following the Holy Writ of the ever-more-arbitrary Manual of Style can be damn near impossible (for the ever-shrinking circle who still pay attention to it), but article writing really is just a case of "insert a after b". It's slow and it's tedious, but it's only as difficult as the topic you choose. As long as you're on an uncontroversial topic, it's perfectly possible to create a perfectly valid GA in a couple of hours. – iride scent 17:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

LM reversion

Okay, well I'm confused now. LM needs to know that reverting edits like this need explanation. But alright, I get the point, I'll just let her do whatever and you (if you want) can deal with the repercussions. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:15, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, don't get me wrong; without an edit summary to explain why it was reverted, then at the very least she was being bitey in removing content without an edit summary – and she's certainly been here long enough to know that. All I was trying to say is that it wasn't necessarily a bad revert, just a badly done revert. Semantic difference I know, and she's an established enough editor that she should know better. L-m (I assume you're reading this), please take on board what people tell you, even when you don't like the way they tell it. – iride scent 20:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar of Respect

		The Original Barnstar
		I run into you a lot, and you are always making excellent contribs. Keep up the good work! Washburnmav (talk) 19:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Er... not sure why or where, since AFAIK we don't work in a single related area, but thanks... – iride scent 20:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I was, of course, talking about the RPP and vandalism reversion we both do. Washburnmav (talk) 00:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess - although it's not really my thing; you've happened to come across me on the first day in two months that I've used any kind of automated tool other than Twinkle; I've been plowing through bunch of diffs with Huggle trying to replicate a bug (see the conversation with Gurch above), and any vandal-cleanup is collateral. (For the record, the indef-block isn't replicable but I've found that CSD A7 causes the program to crash.) – iride scent 00:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

You know it would be nice if you told me that rather than me having to read your entire talk page -- Gurch (talk) 21:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Ooops my fault – I did mean to post it at Huggle/Feedback & got sidetracked. I think it may have been a temporary glitch as I tried to replicate it yesterday and deletion worked five times in a row. Unless someone else mentions it, assume the fault is at my end. – iride scent 21:44, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

For me, db-a7 works, but db-bio, db-inc, and db-group don't work. J.delanoy ^gabs _adds 22:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

If you haven't already, you should probably either tell Gurch or post at WP:Huggle/Feedback. I couldn't replicate the problem so don't have anything to add, and as Gurch says it's unreasonable to expect him to notice this here. – 무지개 빛깔 00:08, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Apparently not :) -- Gurch (talk) 21:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

At least I know who you are and how this page wound up on your watchlist - some of the signatures above I've never heard of.

Incidentally, have been re-trying HG today (I usually work from a mac so don't get the chance); I'm very impressed at how few of the bugs & niggles seem to remain. – iride scent 21:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Alas the next version introduces a lot of features that were requested, and hence many bugs too. It is a long process fixing them -- Gurch (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

←Compared to a Certain Other Writer of Scripts, I think it's an outright miracle how well you've done with Huggle, given how many bells and whistles are tacked onto it. The worst Huggle gets is the occasional rude comment about some of its users and the odd "it crashed for no reason"; this is what comes of a genuinely buggy automated tool. – iride scent 21:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Yay

Ow, it's like fireworks, very hypnotic. — Realist² 01:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm just waiting for the complaint... I had all the dead space at the top of the page, thought I may as well put something in it. – iride scent 16:04, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Personal attack and not assuming good fait by User:Emeraude

Can you please take some action against User:Emeraude for their blatant personal attack at Wikipedia:Peer review/British National Party/archive1..--Lucy-marie (talk) 10:47, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The user is now not assuming good faith at the same article.--Lucy-marie (talk) 11:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't really consider that a personal attack, more of a content dispute. I suppose technically, they are accusing you of forum-shopping, but they're not being particularly uncivil about it; the talk page does look fairly moribund. If it does carry on, the best thing to do is post at Wikiquette alerts as opposed to here; because I've dealt with you in the past I can be accused of bias (both pro and anti you).

I think the current version of the article in question looks fairly balanced and stable. For what it's worth, I think "far right" is more accurate than "fascist". I'd strongly suggest getting someone totally uninvolved – and ideally not based in Europe, let alone Britain, and with no strong political leanings of any kind, to have a look at it – as anyone in Britain is likely to have strong opinions on the BNP. I agree with the original reviewer that six {{citation needed}}'s in one article is too many, especially on an politically charged topic like this. One of my talk page stalkers may see this and take a look; otherwise, the names that spring to mind are Jclemens, Epbr123 or DGG. Don't be surprised if some or all of them want to stay away from a topic like that that's likely to lead to a flamewar, and be prepared for people to disagree with you. I'd also suggest BrownHairedGirl who writes a lot on British politics, but I know she's away until next month, and the most obvious peer-reviewer of all for an article like this is Jennavecia – however, while I'm sure she wouldn't object to your asking her, would probably decline as her talkpage has still fully to recover from the flamewar & backlash the last time she touched a "white pride" related topic.

Sorry I can't be more help... I'm not trying to wriggle out, but you really do need someone totally uninvolved for something this sensitive. – iride scent 16:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

As the user complained of, may I thank you for your decision above and also give some detail on the BNP article.

You are probably not aware that Lucy-marie has a long history with this article of opposing any mention of the word "fascist" as a descriptor of the BNP and, indeed, the word was constantly inserted and deleted over a long period until respected academic sources were cited to back up the use of this word. Lucy-marie then changed tack, and picked up on the fact that some of the references were three or four years old (not unusual when looking for information on a minor party which is, therefore, a somewhat specialist area for political science academics) and that the party has changed, but despite repeated requests from other editors neither she or ant of several others has posted any reliable contrary evidence. Now, I'm quite prepared to accept that some people do not think the BNP is fascist and am aware that the BNP has itself attempted to distance itself from its fascism, but, I repeat, no reliable sources have been produced to substantiate the objective view that the BNP is fascist. And believe me, as a political scientist by background, I have scoured the literature myself in vain. Incidentally, you will probably find that some of the "citations needed" tags are there because the BNP removed from its website things that were previously cited - a number of editors have been trying to track down alternative sources for these.

My annoyance with Lucy-Marie stems from what appears to me a blatant misuse of Wikipedia procedures in an attempt to have her own way when she has lost the argument. In this regard she has a history in other topics. If all else fails, she has a history too of reporting other users for personal attacks. It's a great pity - she has made some excellent contributions (and I have even praised her in the past for some of them) and has recently started a page on school uniform that not only looks extremely promising but one which I may be able to contribute to as well.

Sorry to go on and on. Emeraude (talk) 18:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Believe me, I'm very, very aware of the issues Lucy-marie has on Wikipedia; I'm also very aware of her unwillingness to admit when she's wrong - or even right-but-outnumbered, and the extreme lengths she goes to to defend what she believes to be right. (I was the one who got her blocked last year, and see this conversation above on an unrelated issue she's currently involved in). However, I can also see her viewpoint; she is right in that the BNP has making a conscious attempt to distance itself from fascism, and I do believe this needs someone totally uninvolved to hold the ring, unless we're to have a revival of the "white pride"/"white power"/"white supremacy" debacle of a few months ago; I'm also unhappy at (and I'm not referring to you here) the way L-m sometimes turns into a general punchbag for broader issues around any article as soon as people see her name in the contribution history, in much the same way as SlimVirgin. As I say above, you desperately need someone who doesn't care to review that article or the same edit-wars will keep bouncing back and forth. – iride scent 19:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment I would like to directly quote Iridescent here (referring to me) "whatever she's done in the past is in the past and unless you can find evidence of any current abuse by her, stop making insinuations." I think that sums up entirely this whole issue.--Lucy-marie (talk) 20:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes – that's what I'm trying to say. I think you still have a history of not admitting you're ever wrong, but I don't necessarily think you're wrong here. I do think you need to get someone totally uninvolved to have a look at this since it's obvious you two aren't going to agree – iride scent 20:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colin Carter

I added some references to Colin Carter. You may want to revisit Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colin Carter. --Eastmain (talk) 22:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm on the fence now; on the one hand, there does seem enough to possibly push him from "marginally non-notable" to "marginally notable"; on the other, I'm not competent to judge which of those awards are significant. It looks like it's headed for a "no consensus" come what may; if it starts to sway towards deletion, I'll revisit it. Quite frankly, the creator's behaviour is not exactly inspiring me to put any effort into defending it. – 무지개 빛깔 00:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Please see my talk page for new messages

Thanks fr33kman (talk) 15:08, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Replying there. – iride scent 15:57, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

RE:

Thanks Iri for that heads-up.:)--Xp54321^{(Hello! • Contribs)} 02:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Stalking the Talk Page Stalkers

Seeing as everyone else seems to be doing this, let's have a go as well...
I'm curious as to who's watching this page, as the oddest mix of people seem to periodically pop up with comments here, and quotes from this page seem to turn up on assorted policy discussions, badsites and blogs at the strangest times. For my curiosity's sake, would you please add #~~~~ below if you're reading this message? Thanks! As I believe I said once before in another context, think of it as Facebook for people who don't want to show their faces.

Note to banned users; I won't count it against you, and request that no-one else does, if you sign here even if it's a technical breach of your ban. I know that some of you are watching this page (waves to Canterberry) and I'd be interested to see who. If you're hardblocked or don't want to risk breaching your ban/revealing your IP, feel free to email me instead & I'll manually add you.
Note to everyone else; this is not a guestbook but a "snapshot" of this particular week – please don't "direct" people here unless they're actually reading this page.

Talk Page Stalkers:

Karanacs (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 16:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
RyanLupin • (talk) 16:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Amalthea^Talk 16:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC) (probably not for too long though, there's too much traffic here ;)
This is totally a guestbook. –xeno (talk) 16:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Of course it's not a guestbook Tombomp (talk/contribs) 17:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Dear god, what have I started. I was merely trying to prove a point to Orangemarlin. Of course I watch this page. My paranoia won't allow me to unwatchlist. Keeper ǀ 76 17:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
AFAIK I saw this done first on User talk:Lucy-marie – Keeps, for once you're not to blame. – iride scent 17:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Lucy-marie posted hers on Aug 19. I started mine, to prove a point to Orangemarlin, on Aug 18. I'm a bit terrified at the response, really. There are several names on their I've never seen or heard before. I know of at least one other editor (steve crossin) that is looking for the same ego boost :-) Keeper ǀ 76 18:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
You're absolutely right, I'm going senile... If you want your ego re-dented, slap one on Giggy and Lara's talkpages and watch them race to 500. – iride scent 18:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I would put one on giggy's, but by the time it reached 300 affirmatives, there would be 100 or more non-post posts that claim that he canvassed for those 300 through sultry blogs, missives, and email attacks. Keeper ǀ 76 18:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Only watchlisted because we had conversations on the 11th and 13th, but it's an interesting read, I might forget to unlist it... JohnCD (talk) 17:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Slightly embarassing to discover that I'm a TPS, but it's a good read. Darkspots (talk) 18:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
And I've brought my own stalker along with my post. [2] Twofer da price of one. You're welcome. Darkspots (talk) 23:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
What talkpage would be complete without at least one piece of Wiki brah trolling? – iride scent 23:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Not watchlisted but I come for a chat when my watchlist is quiet. — Realist² 18:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
ImmortalGoddezz (t/c) 18:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC) I've had yours watchlisted for a while, though I haven't jumped in on any convos (yet, well besides this one).
Please sign my !guestbook!
(Eco walks across the project from the AfD forums, stops, takes out a cigarette, flicks his lighter, inhales, puts his lighter in his pocket, looks around at his surroundings, sees a list of TPS names, exhales, walks over to the list, takes out a Swiss Army knife, opens the blade, inhales again while humming "Pata Pata" to himself, carves his name on the list, closes the knife, exhales, puts his hands in his jacket pockets, walks off in the direction of WikiProject agriculture, inhaling...) Ecoleetage (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
OMG. That was beautiful. Simply beautiful....Keeper ǀ 76 19:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Fabrictramp. Only a small time one-discussion stalker. But I did love Mel on FOTC, so now I'm worried... :)
Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Jclemens (talk) 00:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't watchlist anything, I just drift around, just drifted here from AN. RMHED (talk) 01:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
J.delanoy ^gabs _adds 02:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Miaow. Risker (talk) 02:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC) See previous thread for explanation.
sheepishly sticks toe in the water ^S._D.D.J.Jameson 02:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Well, err, umm, not watchlisted or anything but err, umm ... BMW(drive) 11:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
? Gurch (talk) 22:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Extended conversation moved to its own subsection – iride scent
Metros (talk) 19:06, 23 August 2008 (UTC) I'll fess up to watching
Very bad at clearing my watchlist... Carcharoth (talk) 20:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
Gosh, seems I just signed one of these... –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
--Xp54321^{(Hello! • Contribs)} 01:46, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
O hai. I can haz stalkrs ov Iridescent membrship nao? Jennavecia ^(Talk) 22:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
*Waves* Not a regular visitor, but i can't say i don't look at your talk page every now and then :) Excirial^{(Talk,Contribs)} 11:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
-holds up hands- Guilty as accused. Your talk'y is so interesting. I c eUnshattered ^{[ t ]} 19:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
I think "unusual" is more the word you're after... – 무지개 빛깔 02:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I am now, but I just got here. Frank | talk 15:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I suppose I count now... GlassCobra 15:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I am not a stalker. I pay people to do that for me. Waltham, The Duke of 05:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
There was a reason for being here once upon a time, I think... Bencherlite ^Talk 06:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
You know I wasn't, I'd just occasionally end up dropping by to read from links on the Keeper-pedia and elsewhere, but when I commented below, I never took it off my watchlist so I guess I'm here now. That makes a total of I think three watched user talks. TravellingCari 12:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello, TravellingCari, and welcome to User talk:Iridescent! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• WikiSpeak

• Assume bad faith

• Assume stupidity

• Wikipedia is not a social networking site

• Reporting administrator abuse

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Talk Page Stalker! – iride scent 16:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Extended conversation

Thanks for the link!

TravellingCari 02:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome – iride scent 02:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It's OK. I feel badly for him, and hate that the project might lose a productive editor. While I think it could have had a good end, sometimes just cutting it off is the best and I respect his decision. As I said re: Dusti and just repeated to Eco, "better to walk away than crash and burn." Have a good night! E/C. I feel like we're on Keeper's page! TravellingCari 02:52, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes... It would be nice if certain other people realised that failed RFAs are neither the end of the world, nor evidence of a giant conspiracy. Not that I have anyone in particular in mind, obviously. – iride scent 02:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I get what you're saying. It's sad. In some ways wiki is/becomes a popularity contest. I told Keeper that if I hadn't passed, I'd have stayed. I'd likely not have run again because there's little beenfit that I see to going through that multiple times but it is possible to take commentors suggestions under thought and use them to be a better contributor. *yawn* this is why I love museums, no drama there :) That was a comment somewhere. Someone hadn't edited in controversial areas. For me personally, why would I. I like quiet and not things like Real Life Ministries. TravellingCari 03:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

It's why I like railway stations and historic buildings; not that I have any particular interest in either, but they have an automatic presumption of notability (so you can bat away the idiotic attempts to CSD them), and they rarely get the deranged fanboys other articles seem to attract. Now, if we could only find a way to clear out the idiots who tag articles like this as "spam"...

I don't understand the people who leave Wikipedia when they fail RFA. Yes, it's annoying, but "30 people don't like me out of 10,000 active editors" could be said about anyone; it's just a lottery of who turns up. Unfortunately, some people don't seem to realise that. – iride scent 03:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. To some extent I don't understand NPP. Other than in cases of blatant vandalism or other bad-faith edits how can anyone tell in <3 min whether topic x is notable. Sometimes I swear it would take less work to say, "Oh wait, here's some basic info. Let me add it and leave it for someone more familiar. I do not understand the every article must be perfect or deleted now sentiment. While I do agree with removing those articles that don't belong, and there are some that should be speedied, I don't think it has to be done right now. Right this second or the world will implode. Plus I have fun working on the odd ones like Museum of Counterfeit Goods.

I was surprised with my RFA at the turnout simply because I didn't know that many editors. I was amused by people who independently looked at others' contribs and voted. I've never been much of an RFA contrib, though I tend to peek at RFA daily. I think RfA can be a good learning experience, or it can be a train wreck i.e. Giggy's. What I don't get is the "need" to be an admin. Is the world really incomplete without the bit? I'm not talking recent here but others, and I don't get it. I honestly never thought about RfA before Keeper and Rudget brought it up to me, followed by DDG and Wizardman. I said WTHN and went for it. Happy I did, but my world wouldn't be much different without it. OK, bedtime here now. Have a good day! TravellingCari 03:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I was much the same. At the risk of being zOMG ageist, I think a substantial proportion (by no means all) of our younger contingent do see adminship as "levelling up" and get upset when they fail to win at the game; also, a lot of said younger contingent don't understand what real problems are, so put way more weight on Wikipedia than it deserves. Anyone who's been fired from a job, had a marriage break-up, dreaded the arrival of a Final Reminder or even just failed a driving test, tends to keep Wikipedia in a better perspective. Except those who go the other way and treat Wikipedia as the solution and/or unpaid therapist for said problems... – 虹色 12:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's an ageism issue so much as a younger editors need to prove they're the exception to the norm. While most people would expect editors > 25 or so to be mature and be surprised by the immature one. Whereas with teens or pre-teens the expectation is that they'll be immature and we can be pleasantly surprised if they trurn out to be mature. It's not to say they can't be but the onus is on hthem and most of the teen and pre-teen editors I've seen here have not shown that. I think RfA can be good but I think there are weaknesses in the current system. Here in the US we have something called "Senior Superlatives" in high school. So and so has the prettiest eyes, most popular, nicest, etc. As I said to someone else, can't remember who or where right now, there's no perfect person and I don't understand those who go looking for one at RfA. That said I think there are poeple on both sides who go overboard and it becomes the trainwreck that it is in general. Off hand in recent months I think of Giggy, TPH, the one that eventually led to Majorly's RFC, the one that led to the cabal above.... It's pathetic that it has to turn into that when it could be a constructive discussion of editors strengths and weaknesses but people in nu,bers sadly=drama. Want a laugh? Talk:Real Life Ministries. Such drama over a church. I hope Eco comes back because he was a wonderful content contributor. Me, I'm going to go watch Rafa whose just taken the court at 11:30 pm here. Oy! TravellingCari 03:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree re Eco, and hopefully he'll come back. If Malleus had left following the barrage of abuse at his RFA I could have understood it, but Eco's opposes were all "You're generally fine aside from foo" criticism. Ironically, if he'd left it open it almost certainly would have passed. – iride scent 16:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I was a little shocked at some of the nonsense I saw in my own RfA, and that one editor in particular who seems to have made it his mission to drive me off the project in any way he can, basically did his best to scupper it. No names, no pack drill. So I can fully understand if Eco found the experience a little upsetting. It's not the nicest thing in the world to be told that you're not to be trusted, particularly when looking at some of the characters who manage to get through the trial. Like you, I think that Eco could well have passed had his RfA been kept open, but I respect and understand his decision to withdraw. I'd have done exactly the same thing, for the same reason. It'll be sad if that decison results in the loss of a good editor though. RfA reall ought to come with a health warning. The prospect of failure doesn't seem so bad at the start, but as the personal comments start to accumulate it can begin to become a little more hurtful than was bargained for. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 18:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

<---Re: RfA reall [sic] ought to come with a health warning: Even when you offer the "health warning", there is no guarantee that the results won't cause the addition of new, very black templates. Sigh. Keeper ǀ 76 15:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes – the trouble is, any possible health warning boils down to "O wad some Power the giftie gie us/To see oursels as ithers see us!", and – especially in a place like this with so much more than its fair share of ~~loons, trolls and cranks~~ persons with strongly held opinions, it's impossible to predict which way any given wind is going to blow. – 虹色 15:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Apologies

Hello! I just wanted to pass along my apology for disappointing you in my train wreck of an RfA (there is a scrap metal sale going on now, if you're interested). I am going on Wikibreak and I will let you know when or if I am back on the site -- I am trying to take time away to clear my thoughts and refocus on this and other priorities. Be well. Ecoleetage (talk) 05:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, I hope it doesn't drive you away (see the thread immediately above this one). While I do believe there is a benefit to the current "trial by ordeal" nature of RFA, in that it sifts out people who will react badly to the barrage of criticism that every admin here is subjected to, it is invariably a foul experience for all those involved (except a small group who make a hobby of opposing for spurious reasons and/or arguing on trivial points). All the (legitimate) criticism in your particular case was in the form of "things to work on" rather than "zOMG I hate him" – do try not to take it personally, even if you don't agree with any of the particular criticism. – iride scent 15:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I understand the point you're making; if you can't stand up to an RfA then maybe you can't stand up to the abuse that you'll receive if you pass the RfA. The fact is though that the only way to see how someone stands up to abuse is to see how they stand up to abuse. So here's an idea: every RfA candidate must have been involved in at least one acrimonious dispute before presenting themselves for the community's approval. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

That's not at all a bad idea; indeed, I suspect that's what the thinking behind Q3 was. Anyone can say "I blocked a vandal and he told me to fuck off"; someone who can point out where they stood their ground in a dispute and where they backed down despite "knowing" they were in the right is harder to find. I'm convinced that the reason my RFA had so few opposes is because my talkpage at the time contained this and this. – iride scent 23:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually iridescent we poor foot soldiers can't say "I blocked a vandal and he told me to fuck off". ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Good point... Come to that, if he's blocked, he can't tell anyone to fuck off. Sorry, the combination of trying to make Bruce Castle sound interesting, batting away what is frankly a talkpage gone crazy, and a sense of extreme frustration that a group of high-profile alleged sockpuppets I spent a large chunk of the past year defending have turned out to be (apparently) a gaggle of abusive infiltrators with some kind of weird hidden agenda which nobody can quite figure out, about which Arbcom's sooper-sekret evidence has apparently transpired to be 100% right, means I'm not quite thinking straight. – iride scent 01:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

= MFD

Iridescent - I got your message. I've also nominated it for deletion. I was just blowing off some steam in my userspace. No one's gotten that "award", nor would they.

Thanks. KoshVorlon > rm -r WP:F.U.R 17:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

User:I'm On Base

Graphic in top right corner of your talk page...

Blinkin' 'eck, d'you know how trippy that thing is? I've just spent the better part of 15 minutes gazing at it pointlessly. Granted, I'm half asleep, but still... :P _Talk Islander 21:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

No idea what it was actually intended to illustrate... – iride scent 21:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe what it feels like to be on an acid trip? GlassCobra 22:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Trust me on this. It doesn't. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The image behind the Wikipedia logo, maybe... – iride scent 12:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Heads up: The Shalom Yechiel thread

This thread is already 70kb long and still growing.

It's broken into archive-collapse boxes because I have no desire to have a talkpage measured in metres, and not because I'm "declaring it closed". If anyone does really feel the need to make it any longer, please add any new comments at the bottom, outside the collapse box as otherwise it will get even more incoherent and confusing.

For anyone reading this and wondering what the hell is going on, this festival of ABF is the fallout from this Request for Adminship and this Request for Comment which followed it. – iride scent

:O

Using AutoWikiBrowser and Huggle at the same time? I'm impressed.

By the way, thought you might want to know that the next version of Huggle has a system for making your own filtered queues -- which means among other things, you can use it to monitor other Huggle users :) -- Gurch (talk) 21:55, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Using AWB and Huggle and watching King Kong at the same time. Just reclassify me as a bot. – iride scent 21:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Within 2 minutes of posting that, Huggle froze and quit... I think that's what's called "tempting fate". – iride scent 22:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It, er, detected you were trying to do too much at once and shut down for your own safety. :D -- Gurch (talk) 22:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Surely not? – iride scent 22:25, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

While you're here - any chance of adding a BLP "adding unreferenced controversial info" warning (as per Twinkle)? It would be useful for Sarah Palin, quite aside from the usual "x slept with y" nonsense. – iride scent 22:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It's on my to-do list -- Gurch (talk) 22:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

[4]. I guess I lost! rootology (C)(T) 01:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

So did he. – iridescent 01:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Dammit Iri, you could have made that block message at least ten times funnier. GlassCobra 06:50, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

-points at GlassCobra's comment- I really must agree. (Excuse the unexplained intrusion by a TPS) I c eUnshattered ^{[ t ]} 19:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Never really approved of jokes in block notices or warnings – too much risk of backfiring. I get more than enough complaints as it is. – iridescent 19:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

[5] Very interesting read! - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 18:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
to save people wading through a huge sprawling WT:RFA thread, the link being discussed is here – iride scent 03:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

As I said there, take it with a grain of salt; one researcher's findings doesn't mean they all agree (see Adultism for the opposing view). Although – whether or not it's relevant to Wikipedia – "the longer you live the more you learn" does seem fairly unarguable. (I personally believe that users below the age of legal accountability – 13 under the Florida law in which we operate – shouldn't be put in a position where they're making decisions on libel and copyright issues, but that's just me). – iridescent 18:46, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Interpretation of maturity is extremely diverse; It's all too easy to declare someone immature, but to explain it... =P - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 18:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't actually approach the whole kids-on-the-net thing from the "maturity" angle; there are plenty of adults on Wikipedia (including at least one college professor) who squeal and whine like a toddler who's wet his pants whenever they don't get their way. I look at it from a twin issue of legal responsibility (which the relevant law defines as 13, and isn't up for debate) and ability to judge content (a more tenuous area, and there are some areas where children are better placed to judge, but in general less life experience = less awareness of what is and isn't important). The phrase "Juvenile behaviour" exists for a reason. – iridescent 19:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Wasilla Assembly of God Deletions

I am new to Wikipedia and I created the Wasilla Assembly of God article as my first article, so please bear with me if I ask something stupid.

1. Do you know what reason 98.164.65.131 gives to keep deleting your information?
I wrote as section on International Press Coverage of Three Church Sermons

"Wasilla Assembly of God became the focus of Pakistani and American press coverage and intense internet activity in September 2008, after the The Huffington Post posted videos and quotations from three of its sermons, asserting that God favored the American invasion of Iraq, that critics of president George Bush’s handling of Hurricane Katrina would go to hell, and that voters for John Kerry would not get into heaven."

This was the zillionth rewrite, with people all over coaching me to remove coatrack and POV issues, and any living person reference. 2. Do you know why it may have been deleted?

3. Sarah Palin could not have been present for the sermons being reported and blogged on all over the world, since she left in 2002. But no one will let me mention her. It seems unfair to her to tar her with a sermon she never saw. Do you have a suggestion how I can get this fact in the article without it being deleted? EricDiesel (talk) 20:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm in England, and consequently know very little about a) Christianity, b) Alaska or c) Sarah Palin. I do know that Palin-related articles are quite controversial at the moment; you might want to ask Keeper76, who has become something on an expert on Sarah Palin articles lately. – iride scent 20:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

*snort* he's so going to make you pay for that come Monday. TravellingCari 00:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

He loves everything Sarah Palin related & you know it. – yanar döner 00:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I was actually offline a good part of yesterday and laughhed so hard when I saw the exploded state. I was trying to fix the diff I used in the keeper pedia rule (wanted one that just showed the page withot my comment at the top) but at the same time the one I used showed it so well. We're all insane! TravellingCari 00:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I lost my nerve and reverted it. – ιριδ ίζων 00:45, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

LMAO, that was great. I pity the n00b who tried to make heads or tails of us. I think he'd have laughed. Hard. TravellingCari 01:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Keep's talkpage has remained remarkable un-Palinolithic today. Maybe it needs a few more threads. – iridescent 03:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

ROFL Palin Apprecation Society? Good lord of Alaska, that's funny. I've reverted some of xeno's "alterations", for the sake of the n00b as well. Thank god for oil drilling, er I mean, whale killing, er I mean archive-bot. Keeper ǀ 76 15:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

You're evil and I hate you

How could you possibly brutally harass that poor innocent Wikipedia editor into crossing the road? You should be banhammered so hard you end up in China.

copy paste until it reaches 20kb

JOKE. ;-O

Giggy (talk) 00:05, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

01:05, 7 September 2008 Giggy (Talk | contribs | block) (126,870 bytes) (→You're evil and I hate you: new section)

I think we're safely over that limit right now... – перелив ающийся 00:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I won't accuse you of being an uber evil myspacer (zomg!) if you archive. Giggy (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

The bot will clear it all away in due course. I don't actually want the Thread From Hell insta-archived as it refers to a (ahem) Current Unfortunate and Foreseen/Unforeseen (delete depending on who you are) Event. – yanar döner 00:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

On second thoughts, have reduced the bot's archive time until this page is back to a reasonable size – iride scent 01:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh my god. I saw this section header in my watchlist and I clicked on it, all the while thinking "please let this be a joke...." J.delanoy ^gabs _adds 02:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

A reference to this if you're trying to figure it out. (This talkpage gets more than enough genuine "You're evil and I hate you"s to keep you happy, though). – iride scent 02:11, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? You are evil and I do hate you! Giggy (talk) 06:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Btw. what's up with the sig today? Btw2. You're running for ArbCom right? Please say yes.

The people who hate me are generally the same people who hate you. With at least one obvious exception. – 虹色 15:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
The sig still says "iridescent", just in a variety of languages. For some, well, variety. – ιριδ ίζων 15:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I can't imagine how I'd do in an arbcom election. Actually, I can, and it's not pretty. See (1) above. You, ap pa re ntly, enjoy putting yourself in situations where 100 people line up to insult you for any vague thing that didn't go 100% their way that you were somehow involved in; I get quite enough of that already. Although it would almost be worth it for the lulz value of some of the opposers comments (I think you can guess who I have in mind), which I'm guessing would be fairly epic. (If I announced a candidacy, I might for the first time request a password for #wikipedia-en-admins, as the conversations would probably make entertaining viewing). – 무지개 빛깔 15:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

You don't need access to en-admins to get the logs... they get leaked, sweetheart. You'd know what was said. >_> Jennavecia ^(Talk) 03:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Support thread title. Oh wait, is this a vote? Keeper ǀ 76 15:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

A new category

I was thinking of making a category. "Music Michael Jackson owns the rights to". Lol, it would be so fun to tag like the hundreds of songs (especially The Beatles, Elvis and some of Madonnas). — Realist² 14:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It might actually not be a bad idea, although it would need a parallel Category:Music Paul McCartney owns the rights to, given his sprawling empire. Although if you really want to trawl through this piece of glaring original research, plus round up all the stragglers, then by my guest. – iridescent 15:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes it looks like he has a formidable empire of his own, yet doesn't actually own his own stuff (the irony). Anyways, it would be a mammoth job, it might be easier to make the category "Music Michael Jackson doesn't own the rights to". — Realist² 15:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

As I understand it, Sony has an option to buy him out; you just know that the moment you created the category, they'd exercise it. – iridescent 15:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The official negotiation of 2005 were never disclosed although that was suggested as an option before hand. We don't know what was actually agreed to when they eventually signed. However as recently as 2007, they worked together on a big business project ... Jackson and Sony bought Famous Music LLC from Viacom in 2007. This deal gave him the rights to songs by Eminem, Shakira and Beck, among others.[6]. Personally I think he's mad to continue with them, he should sell out before Sony try to sink him into selling out. — Realist² 15:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a gamble; if the new album sparks a wave of interest, or something happens to generate a renewed surge in interest in the Northern Songs list, he could be sitting on a goldmine. I suspect Apple would jump at the chance to buy his stake, both for the stranglehold it would give Itunes over the market, and to annoy Paul McCartney. – iridescent 15:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I find it funny how this has been spun by so many people as a Jackson v Beatles/McCartney thing. The thing is, the Beatles are only 150 songs. Northern Songs and later Sony/ATV are thousands of songs. Jackson's and Sonys empire is huge with or without the Beatles (sorry Beatles fans). I think he's mad to stick hold of them. The music industry is weak so I'll guess this has effected the value of the publishing's a little and he has Sony playing dirt tricks behind his back. If I was him I would sell to some other company and wipe the smirk off Sony's face. — Realist² 15:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Although the Beatles are only a few songs, they're by far the most significant of the Northern Songs backlist, not least because the "Lennon/McCartney" crediting means that the copyright clock will only start ticking from McCartney's death. As regards the Apple thing, Apple & McCartney have been sniping at each other for thirty years over who owns the rights to the name Apple Music. – iridescent 16:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you check out this please, don't trust the guy who uploaded this for a second considering his talk page. Was plastered as the main picture on the Britney Spears article. — Realist² 16:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

And off to PUI it goes. – iridescent 16:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

He's due a block before long (his block log is clean), considering this on his talk page. People who lie .... — Realist² 16:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The trouble is, although we can delete the photos as "disputed status", unless we can dig out the original and prove where it came from – or he leaves the metadata tags on something he "borrows" – it's almost impossible to prove abuse. I do not intend going through the million-plus images a Google search on "Britney Spears" will bring up. Since he says he lives in Hanoi, and the photo is clearly in California, I'm not going to assume much good faith here. – iridescent 16:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol. That last bit was funny. — Realist² 17:05, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ding dong, editor who uploaded this also uploaded another Britney Picture a few days ago (check his talk page), it emerged via consensus on the Britney Spears talk page that that picture wasn't free. This seems unlikely too. It even has an AP sign in the corner. — Realist² 17:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, I need some admin tools over at Britney Spears. Can an admin talk page stalker help out please if Iridescent is away. — Realist² 17:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Given him a final 3RR warning. Don't revert him if he does it again or you'll be in breach of 3RR. Have also given Mr Vinx a final warning for copyright violation, having spotted yet another of "his". – iridescent 17:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Bloody molly, they are all at. Just because she looks good again... Betta watch out for this, lot's os sneaky stuff going on. — Realist² 18:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Grumblings for you to read

Need a second opinion on an essay I'm grumbling up. User:Keeper76/Fair, not equal. (use the talk page there, good lord, don't use mine...) Keeper ǀ 76 18:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

(Also, if you've seen something similar to point me to, I did an essay search but couldn't find anything). Keeper ǀ 76 18:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Justindavila / Collective:Unconscious

Jennavecia and I imposed a topic ban on this editor earlier today due to his edit warring and COI issues. He has since continued to edit war and insert snide editorial comments, such as this. Would you mind either attempting to talk to him or issuing a short block? Thanks. GlassCobra 20:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

From the history, he hasn't readded the more idiotic additions since they were last removed,and the bit about the logo one can at least see an argument for inclusion. I've got it watched; if there's any further silliness, I'll step in. I've been watching this one for a few days and it looks like he's trying to do it right, he just doesn't understand what "right" is and is getting frustrated on realising that we're not Facebook. By the way, is GlassCobra your real name? – iride scent 23:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, he did add the logo since my last posting. Here, he appears to be making some kind of claim that because we have an article on I Ching, it should be included in the CU article. I'm failing to see any kind of significance in the logo, nor do I see any sources that the Ching is an "essential theme inspired by the Lower Manhattan theater and performance art movement." GlassCobra 02:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Have left a Big Red Hand on his talkpage. That makes three different people – hopefully the message will sink in. – iride scent 03:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I have made every effort to accommodate reasonable recommendations by admins and other editors, even relentless editing by "GlassCobra." I regret that "GlassCobra" fails to "see any kind of significance in the logo," despite the link to the wikipedia I Ching article, but I understand that he or she may be uninformed and/or may be trying to prove some other point or gain wiki "cred." This effort to ban me is completely unwarranted. As per Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, "Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views." I have made every effort to collaborate with other editors to come to agreement on changes, and explain my viewpoints in a friendly, positive, and objective, manner. The article may ultimately include conflicting viewpoints. I will ask you and again ask GlassCobra to please not abuse the power of an admin. Thank you.--Justindavila (talk) 13:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The article contains no reliable sources for the history of and story behind the logo, and it is very unusual for a Wikipedia article on a company to discuss the design of the company's logo; even truly iconic logos like the Transport for London roundel or the United States Air Force insignia aren't discussed. Wikipedia is not a directory of everything or a webhost, and GlassCobra's removals of extraneous material from the article are trying to help you by stopping the article from being deleted altogether. With all due respect, GlassCobra is a very experienced Wikipedia administrator who has made over 17000 edits to Wikipedia and almost certainly is better qualified than yourself to judge what is and isn't appropriate content. If you're unhappy with his actions, feel free to post a report at WP:ANI, but you'll almost certainly find that others agree with GlassCobra on this. – iride scent 13:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

How is an internal wikipedia link that explains the logo considered "unsourced?" Thank you.--Justindavila (talk) 14:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The internal Wikipedia link was to I Ching hexagram 64. At no point does that article mention this theatre, nor can I see any circumstances in which it might do so. Please read some of the advice you have been repeatedly given, about reliable sources. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a webhost, and everything on here has to be sourced. – iride scent 14:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Except that this hexagram can only be understood in terms of the I ching hexagram, right? Do you understand what this hexagram means, like millions of other human beings [likely do not -- (edit after the fact--Justindavila (talk) 22:01, 7 September 2008 (UTC))]? Would you or other wiki users benefit from learning more through an easy wiki link? Wikipedia has an article on the I Ching, with a specific ref to hexagram 64. Even an admin, such as – iride scent, and possibly many lowly "users" without "admin-only" powers, may wish to learn what that symbol means. The symbol does not refer to the theater, the theater refers to the symbol, despite iride scent's somewhat limited ability to "see any circumstances in which it might do so." This is simply a lack of research by this admin. Thanks. --Justindavila (talk) 23:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

←You have been told this by at least three editors; I will repeat it one more time. That this hexagram appears on your logo does not make the article on this hexagram a reliable source for the article on your organisation, any more than our article on Chicken is a reliable source for France national rugby union team just because they happen to have a heraldic chicken as their emblem. All these people you are spewing abuse at are trying to stop this article from being deleted. Wikipedia is neither a webhost or a directory and you have had this explained to you many times. This is not open for debate; if you are not willing to follow our rules, this is not the site for you. The time taken up in dealing with you is beginning to cancel out the positives you bring to Wikipedia; if you continue to disrupt Wikipedia to make a point you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. – iride scent 23:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Sudden divergence into discussion of unusual heraldic animals

No offence, but "heraldic chicken" sounds extremely funny. :-) Waltham, The Duke of 03:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Not technically incorrect, and it sounds more amusing than "heraldic cockerel"... – iridescent 12:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's consider this a learning experience. I've learned a lot, especially about admin powers. Your "chicken logo" analogy was certainly amusing to at least two other people, even if it was both more condescending tham funny, and also totally missed the point -- but before you use your powers again, I acquiesce to your "advice," since I've learned I dont have much power here at all. By the way, did you ever actually justify the claim of COI which was supposed to be the reason this all got started? And did you review my apologies for adding a response to a request for citation of the 501c3 non-profit status of the organization, before you blocked me without discussion? Did you do any review personally, or did you just go along with your fellow admins claims? Thanks. --Justindavila (talk) 21:56, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

This is ridiculous and I'm no longer going to reply to any of your ramblings unless and until you have something constructive to say. Three people gave you advice on what was and wasn't acceptable. You chose to ignore it and were blocked. Four more people then gave you advice on what was and wasn't acceptable. Since then you've done nothing but post abuse on talkpages. Wikipedia is not an anarchy and if you're not willing to follow our rules – which have been explained to you repeatedly by multiple editors – then we don't want you here. Sorry to be rude, but that is all that this dispute boils down to. – iride scent 22:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. I don't think I have seen many of them, but a "heraldic" chicken, cockerel, or other fowl can't be very different from the real animal. In contrast to such ferocious beasts as a heraldic antelope or dolphin. Have you seen any? A child would be scared. (Which translates as "useful weapon".)

If you prefer amusing, though, my favourite image is the traditional heraldic depiction of the hare. Waltham, The Duke of 22:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if it qualifies as "heraldic", but my favourite mediaeval stylised animals are the Dacre Beasts, especially the salmon. Just plain odd.

On the subject of scary heraldic animals, my IRL ancestral arms (no, really) are possibly the least menacing ever – a heraldic smelt makes a dolphin or hare look positively terrifying. For any Brandt-wannabee tempted to play soopersleuth with that & try to find out my name, those are the arms of the Cuddeback family, from whom about 70% of the population of my area of NY are descended (14000+ people on the "official" family tree alone), so good luck with that. – iridescent 22:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

That said, who wouldn't be terrified by the sight of the Conesby arms bearing down on them on the battlefield? – iridescent 17:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm only an amateur, but they look like carved supporters. You will notice that there are additional symbols on them: the salmon is crowned with something, and the ox is gorged with a crown and chained. (The latter, in combination with the shell on the pedestal, hints at Bedfordshire—I don't have extensive knowledge of family heraldry, but similarities with arms of local authorities are frequent and intentional.) I think I've seen such wooden sculptures prepared for coronations; they sure are interesting.

Slight rephrase: I like the way the hare is depicted in heraldry (playing the bagpipes), but my favourite beasts are the griffin and several marine hybrids, most notably the sea-lion and sea-horse. I actually use sea-lions in my coat of arms.

About yours, now, you are right about the profound lack of menace. :-) I like the shield: it has a certain sea-like beauty in its simplicity. I also notice the difference from British heraldic tradition, which is the one I study. French, is it? (And what does "IRL" mean? I suppose "ancestral" means you cannot actually use the arms, no? Or wasn't the individuality of arms as strictly enforced in France?)

PS: You've just caused an edit conflict, and it's the first time I am so happy to see one. The new screen is extremely interesting, and tremendously helpful. I think I can hear the rousing cheers. Waltham, The Duke of 17:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

(Excited by the edit conflict, I failed to comment on the reason for it.) Lol! This is a nice one. It sounds like a pun, though, so it's probably fully justified. If a coat of arms can be punning, it usually will be; after all, the purpose of arms is to identify the armiger, and puns make it easier to remember which design is whose. Waltham, The Duke of 17:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

In rough order:

I'm sure they're supporters - look at the way the salmon's fins in particular curve round to grasp an (invisible) staff. Not sure where they came from though; the Dacre arms contain no animals of any sort, let alone this odd mix. They now live in the British Galleries at the V&A, and are a lot bigger than they look in the photo.
Norman, originally, so I assume from the French tradition; the family was originally from Caudebec-en-Caux near the Channel coast, but settled in what was to become the US in the late 17th century (as Hugenots, the family was banned from New France so wound up in what's now New York). I'm quite sure I'm not entitled to bear them, and I'd be surprised if anyone is, given the French Revolution and (presumably) taking British citizenship when they migrated. There's a (rather dubious) history of the family here; traditional back-country American inbreeding means large swathes of Orange County, New York (most obviously Cuddebackville) are filled with Cuddeback descendants of one sort or another. The family tree is so entangled – in the best upstate NY tradition, it forks a lot less than is traditional – that any line of descent is hopelessly confused.
IRL = In Real Life

I just got an e.c. with that. I agree, that window is much better. – iridescent 17:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's one thing to do if you don't have arms: draw your own. They won't be legal, but the product does offer a certain satisfaction.

You are lucky to know your family's history, to any extent. I don't have a family tree to look at, simple or complex, there are no detailed records of the previous generations, and I only vaguely know the history of my ancestors and my surname's derivation. There is no heraldic tradition here, either. (Though, I must say, not actually living with relatives all around is not bad at all, at least for the duration of my studies; family can be a little overbearing at times (read "a lot"), and mine especially so.)

As I was making that edit I was actually considering the possibility that I might be causing an edit conflict, and how fitting (and helpful for my point) that would be. Funny how it came to be, after all. Waltham, The Duke of 04:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

samo505

why did you consider my last edit vandalism? an article on country relations noone has thought of is not nesessary Samo505 (talk) 17:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

So nominate it for deletion. The fact that you don't like an article does not give you the right to blank it. – iridescent 17:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

They never listen – iridescent 17:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Rarely. Did you see the response? (I reverted it already. But it's a personal attack, if you ask me.) Frank | talk 17:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Stick an {{unsourced}} on it. – iridescent 17:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

LMAO! Frank | talk 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow...

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For beating me to reverting my own talk page five times in quick succession, then beating me to the block. How on Earth did you do that? J Milburn (talk) 17:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

...because Iridescent is a bot in disguise :P —— RyanLupin • (talk) 17:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been accused of it in the past... Huggle may have some flaws, but when it's being used right and not as an edit-warring tool, it's a beautiful piece of kit. Gurch gets flak for some of his acolytes' "overenthusiasm", but deserves spectacular credit. – iridescent 17:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism on my user page

Thanks for taking care of it! Ros0709 (talk) 18:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem... – iridescent 18:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

On the topic of vandalism, I don't think these edits really violated the NPOV policy, considering it's about a fictional radio station in a game - it doesn't exactly seem unlikely that one of the characters would be racist. The whole article is pretty crufty though. Tombomp (talk/contribs) 18:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Oops, thought I'd reverted that warning - I did notice after I'd done it that it was on a fictional character. – iridescent 18:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

How to play baseball

Keeper says you need a lesson. You go to the game, yawn instantly, then leave. - At least that's how I played my first game. I'm a mathematician, the world's greatest excuse, so I was the kid on the T-ball team who struggled to pick up the bat, then missed the T-stand. I'm off to read about heraldic animals... You know, before I tried to write my first Wikipedia article on Sarah Palin's Church five days ago, I used to have a real life, see User:EricDiesel. I even had a girlfriend that I spent physical time with. EricDiesel (talk) 19:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The really ironic thing is, where I'm from is only about 100 miles from Cooperstown, but there's no baseball tradition at all in the area – everything's horses & football. Now, I have the excuse of living in The Rest Of The World, where baseball is only played by little girls, and nobody over 15 even remembers the rules. – iride scent 19:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

1. There is not a church section for Copperstown, like there is for Wasilla. What's wrong with you people? EricDiesel (talk) 21:22, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

2. Re:"I'm in England, and consequently know very little about a) Christianity" -

2a. I lost $20 million by last summer with lawyers, then I lost my redwood forest in another frivolous lawsuit while caring for my my mom with cancer, my mom died in May, everything I own burned down with no insurance later in May, and my girlfriend just got a Neuroscience position in Newcastle, England. I hate Enngland.

2b. I thought you said you were in Cooperstown.

3c. Christianity is EXACTLY how I taught you to play baseball above. You go into the church, yawn instantly, then leave.

Thnx for support on delete helps yesterday. EricDiesel (talk) 21:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

From Orange County, New York (a couple of counties down from Cooperstown); currently in Haringey, London. – iridescent 21:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

LMAO, howdy neighbor. I grew up in Rockland. Moved to Rochester, NY for uni, then overseas. Back in Rockland briefly and now in the big smoke. TravellingCari 22:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

For a pack of hillbillies who never leave the woods, we sure do get around, don't we? – iridescent 22:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

We do indeed. I've been all COIy and even dared edit my neighborhood although not my street. Can you block me, please? I need a break from the looney bin. EricDiesel, don't you wish you'd never ventured here? TravellingCari 22:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm happily editing away on a building up the road from my house, so I think the COI police can come for me first. (Once the "architecture and inhabitants" side is out of the way, you may get badgered about its current incarnation as a museum). I'm also only a few minutes away from The Boudoir. If that means nothing to you, count yourself very lucky. – iride scent 22:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I just read something aboout the Bruce actually, can't remember what. I've done a fair bit about my neighborhood as well. Few local buildings too. We're all going down, maybe Keeper will block? :) Not sure if the Boudoir you're thinking of is the one I know of in London. North? Fashion of a sort? I'm off to a bldg. local to my office. Don't think I've edited it yet. Will have to try TravellingCari 22:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

No blocks from me. Speaking of COI, should I be worried that attempts at getting me blocked are coming from my local library, a couple of miles away? Keeper ǀ 76 22:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Iridescent, that explains why I thought your British accent sounded too much like a New York accent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EricDiesel EricDiesel (talk) 02:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC) (talk • contribs) 02:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Keeper, that's a bit creepy! I managed not to enhance my COI in editing MoMA. Actually didn't enjoy it too much, too much techno music and less-than impressive food choices. I'm really looking forward to this opening next week. Should be awesome. And yes, I am a museum geek IRL. I laughed when I got accused of a COI on account of that. I like museums and you like video games - how is this a COI? TravellingCari 03:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Message to User talk:216.120.190.254

Hello Iridescent, not sure if it's on your watch list, but I left a response to your message to User talk:216.120.190.254 - this does look like it may be a copyright violation, as the anon claimed; and the anon also provided an explanation and link to the site in question. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 20:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I'm wrong; corrected and grovelled. – iridescent 22:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

GFDL nightmare

I am new, and am learning about Wiki nightmares by having them. But I don't want to learn that way. Should I shut it down, so I don't kill myself by playing with gunpowder, until I have time to read the links you sent me? 21:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

At the moment it's fine. The twin issues are:

If you remove a personal attack on SP from her article and keep it there, it's still a personal attack on a major figure hosted on Wikipedia;
More importantly (and this is what the GFDL bit means), Wikipedia content is copyright to whoever wrote that particular part. We can't cut-and-past text from one article to another, as that breaks the chain of attribution. If you copied and pasted something to that page, it would be impossible to credit the original author were anyone outside Wikipedia to use it (other sites, and even major newspapers, copy Wikipedia articles surprisingly often), and impossible to find out who to blame for any libels etc.

Hope that makes sense! Don't worry too much about all of Wikipedia's policies, but copyright and BLP (Biographies of Living People) are two that do need to be taken seriously. – iride scent 21:25, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Between you and Keep

are you trying to see what the bot can take? And it's all you two, none of us TPSers have any role in it :) TravellingCari 14:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

There was a reason I reduced the archive time to 24 hours... Normal service is (hopefully) resumed. – iridescent 15:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Hate to think of what the diff would have looked like at one week! I changed my archiver once. Despite Keep's predictions, I've not gotten inundated with posts as *touch wood* I guess my admin moves are mostly uncontroversial and any intensive conversations are in locations not my own. Odd. TravellingCari 15:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

In fairness, I don't usually get 50k posts! I don't like having the archive period below a week and ideally 14 days, as I'm so often away unexpectedly. – iridescent 15:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

We all have our crazy moments. I don't have many unexpected away periods, but I also don't like monstrously long talk pages. DGG's is a wonderful wealth of information but it used to break my old laptop. I couldn't manage that as a page I had to check regularly. TravellingCari 15:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Count yourself grateful you've never had any dealings with Billy Hathorn if you think DGG's page is bad. Plus, archiving my and Keep's talkpages is just rehearsal for the day the bot finally has to tackle this monstrosity. – iridescent 15:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh jeepers christmas that's insane. It bogged my work PC, my baby handles it. Eeek. I can only imagine one comprised of AbD and NYScholar talking to each other, with a side of Talk:Real Life Ministries TravellingCari 03:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I set it to 7 days instead of its usual 14, and it's still looking set to top 100kb within the next 24 hours at this rate (particularly as one of our more periphrastic contributors has now turned up). I guess if it can cope with ANI... – iridescent 21:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

User:Magog the Ogre 2

I've created by second account. I would appreciate if you could give it rollback rights - thanks a lot. And, if there's a way, if you could give it autoconfirm right away. Thanks again. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:19, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

✓ Done as regards the rollback. Not sure how to give it autoconfirm right away (unless anyone reading this can help), but if you make 10 edits it should autoconfirm after four days. – iridescent 18:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Autoconfirm can't be given, unfortunately. GlassCobra 22:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Mason Turner

Hi, I notice that you have undone apparent vandalism to Mason Turner. However, I have deleted the page as a hoax - it is in fact a copy of Brian Turner (American poet). HTH. TerriersFan (talk) 23:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Noted; looking at that deletion log, I think WP:SALT time's coming soon – iridescent 18:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Worthy of an AfD?

Edward Moss (impersonator). Was tempted to nominate for deletion, but he has done a lot of work. Do you think most would "vote" keep? — Realist² 02:00, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't really judge; that looks like a fairly impressive list of films, but I don't know if he's just "guy in background who looks like Michael Jackson" or if he actually has significant speaking roles. You probably know more than me; if you think he's non-notable, AfD it and see what happens.

In general I'm against deleting actors, even the minor pornstars; I tend to follow the KMWeber/DGG line of reasoning that they're verifiable and they're potentially useful – as I've said before, where Wikipedia shines is that we do cover the minor subjects that don't get Britannica entries, and the proper deletion criteria is verifiability and not notability; at the risk of sounding like the most pompous kind of wikilawyer, Wikipedia:Notability is only a style guideline (a much-modified version of this essay), despite the people who cite it as if Jimbo Wales had carried it down on stone tablets from Mount Nupedia. However, there is a limit even to this extreme inclusionism (which I recognise the majority don't agree with), and we certainly don't need articles on every lookalike on the planet unless there's something significant about them.

You might want to ask Keeper76 about this (I'm sure he'll be grateful for yet another post on his talkpage, and do be sure to include at least one of these in any post there) – my deletion-decisions tend to be on CSD candidates and salvaging incorrect prod-nominations, and he has far more experience than me in judging borderline AfDs. – iridescent 19:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: Hellingly Hospital Railway

My answer to your question is applicable to the Trains WikiProject as a whole, so I replied to your question on the project talk page. Slambo (Speak) 11:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Replied there – thanks for getting back to me! – iridescent 18:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Cooper Brown

Iridescent, I'd have appreciated a note that I was quoted on AN/I.[7] You misrepresented my position, which is not that Cooper Brown is real, and that I'm an American editor is totally irrelevant. The satire is obvious to me too. However, that the column is satire doesn't prove that the author doesn't exist. Sometimes, for example, a real person will write a total spoof about their own history; some of it may be true, some not. As you noted, maybe the author is Dom Joly, in which case Cooper Brown would be a possibly notable pseudonym. I've pointed out that, just as we can put "facts" from the column into the article with verifiable attribution, likewise we could put in the two "RS" comments about the identity, I've simply left that to others with direct access to the columns in question, I'm dependent on what's been written in Talk. Did this really deserve a note to AN/I? It seems to have been rather easy to find consensus there on what's in the article -- I managed it by stubbing it ruthlessly and by tossing in weasel words for good measure, to reflect the lack of verification of the underlying "facts." And nobody is seriously debating AfD, either. I.e., some users may indeed file one, but that's simply normal process. I agree, an AfD might be messy, and the article, as-is, seems harmless. --Abd (talk) 15:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Since the sole purpose of the thread was to direct uninvolved people to the talkpage – and no users were named in it – there was no purpose in notifying people of it. You've noticed, I assume, that nobody else involved in that particular lame edit war was notified either;
Cooper Brown is a real column. There is no possibility that Cooper Brown is a real person, unless you think "I'm a movie producer, originally from Eureka, California. I then went to Berkeley before working in LA at Paramount and Variety as well as being Dennis Hopper's PA for a crazy couple of months. Then I met this English chick- Victoria. She's an aristocrat and I moved over here with her and we've had a kid- Humboldt-Fog. We're engaged but I'm in no hurry to marry as her parents (The Himmlers) are lunatics" is a genuine biography. Since you're so fond of wikilawyering: Wikipedia articles should describe fiction and fictional elements from the perspective of the real world, not from the perspective of the fiction itself. As far as I can see, there is not a single person on that talkpage agreeing with you;
Even if you're absolutely right on everything, this is a pathetic thing to be editwarring about, and that goes for all concerned. We currently have 7,055,889 articles of which 49,278 don't need substantial improvement, a ratio of 143 to one. All of you, go improve this article instead of wasting everyone's time arguing about an article nobody cares about;
The place to discuss this is on the article's talkpage, the AfD, or the talkpages of those editors you're arguing with, and not my talkpage. If you have any reply to this that is not directly about me, take it somewhere else. Having just got rid of one batch of 50kb of ramblings from this page, I do not want my talkpage looking like this. This is a website (of somewhat erratic quality), not the Oxford Union; if you have a problem, take it to ANI, RFC, RFAR, WQA or whatever other bit of alphabet soup takes your fancy; hell, take it to WR. – iride scent 20:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ovaflo

Hi there. Came across this AfD, checked out the page, and it turns out that the current four paragraphs are copied (link at AfD log). I was considering a {{db-copyvio}} tag, but it wasn't all added at once, so I don't think G12 exactly applies here. Perhaps {{db-spam}}. Or should we just let the AfD run? Whatcha think? Cliff smith ^talk 16:47, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Whether or not it's a copyvio is irrelevant (and all the edits by a single editor, within a single two hour period, is close enough to me to "at once" for G12 to apply); it's blatant and unsalvageable spam. Gone. – iridescent 18:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Cromer Links Halt

I was in the midst of expanding the Cromer Links article when you made an edit redirecting the page to a Cromer stations article. I have nonetheless proceeded with my edit - removing the redirect - and shall explain why. This station merits far more in-depth treatment than is currently given on the Cromer stations article. I've also read through the discussion you've flagged up in your redirect and can't see that it excludes the possibility of individual articles on stations which have a lot of history to them. I was hoping to do a similar article on Cromer High on which there is plenty of material. I'm not trying to create problems and I don't think it affects the good article status of the Cromer stations article. Lamberhurst (talk) 20:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

No problem if you're going to expand it – and I couldn't care less about the GA status of the current article, which in its current much-messed-about state doesn't deserve it – but don't be in the least surprised if someone else reverts you on this. (I won't, unless the article isn't substantially expanded). If you're going to split the article, you maybe ought to delete (or massively stubbify) the equivalent sections from Railway stations in Cromer and return it to being Cromer railway station, unless you're willing to keep them all watchlisted, as the potential for content-forking is very high. – iride scent 20:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

After some consideration and having read the many other discussions on this subject, I moved the content to the Cromer article and reinstated your redirect. It's a shame though that it had to come to this - the original Cromer Beach article seems to have been extended by tacking on brief mentions of the former stations in the area and then gained GA status. What in retrospect should have been done was as Mjroots proposed at the discussion you indicated, namely different articles for the stations, but the concern that they would just be stubs seems to have prevailed. It's a shame as the main article on Cromer Beach isn't up to much in the first place. Interesting though that Roughton Road survived the grouping, perhaps on the basis that it's open to traffic. One can only hope that the debate on this article will be reopened and Railway stations in Cromer reverts to Cromer Beach once more. Lamberhurst (talk) 21:07, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

It might not be clear from the discussions, but we used to have three separate articles ([8], [9], [[10]]), which were merged to form the single article. You're indeed right on why Roughton Road survived; every currently open station gets its own article (even hopeless cases such as Brigg), while unless there's a good reason to keep them separate (generally that their article is long), standard practice (but not policy) is to have an article on the line with the stations as stubs. There's a grey area regarding preserved railways, which tend to look something like this. As so many people are watching these articles, it's usually a good idea to discuss any proposed change at WT:RAIL to gauge how any changes are likely to go down. – iridescent 21:15, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

New Michael Jackson duet

Here, what you reckon? I like it, it's been well received by fans. — Realist² 00:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Not particularly impressed I have to say – whatever the merits of the song, the production sounds like it's been through Auto-Tune one too many times, and the song seems a bit dated. But I'm decidedly not the target market. – iridescent 18:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

My RFA

In response to your concerns at my RFA, I would like to tell you I have been contacted for my speedy deletions. Since then, I have been much more careful. For at least two of those, one being Koh Lipe, I would not have nominated it today, as I have learned since then. I hope this explanations of my actions will switch your !vote to Support, or maybe even Neutral. Cheers.--LAA Fan^sign _review 22:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

No. If these were in the past I'd have no problem with it at all - everyone makes mistakes - but this and this were yesterday and the others were all in the past couple of weeks. – iridescent 22:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

(adding) I just noticed that "at least two". If you think any of those six examples were valid taggings - let alone two-thirds of them - then quite honestly I don't trust you to tag articles for deletion, let alone to actually delete them. – iridescent 22:41, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

No, I meant at least two of those were before I took a long look at the criteria, and wouldn't have even considered to CSD them. Sorry if my comment was taken the wrong way.--LAA Fan^sign _review 02:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

What you seem to be saying is that you were tagging articles for speedy deletion without having looked at or understood the speedy deletion criteria. Have I got that right? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I looked at it, but I just skimmed it. I know now that was wrong.--LAA Fan^sign _review 14:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, i dont really see you that much around here, but thanks. For reverting Vandalism On my Userpage. Nvm, you always revert vandalism. I cant wait till all these socks can be blocked... Thanks again I guess you deserve this :P

		The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
		For Reverting Vandalism on My Userpage and other articles. II MusLiM HyBRiD II 23:43, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Help retreiving Yateesh M. Acharya article

Dear Iridescent,

an editor has asked on my talk page that he wants Yateesh M. Acharya back on wikipedia. It would be very helpful if you could email me with the latest version of this article so I can tell the editor what improvements the article needs to pass wp:csd.

your,

Alexnia (If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page.) @ 19:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You don't have email enabled, and I'm unable to repost the original article as it's a very blatant (as in, virtually word-for-word) copyright violation from here. I can email you the article text if you want, but it really is virtually identical to the source. – iridescent 19:40, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

oops I forgot to enable it via email (I didn't expect you to reply so fast) but I'll still want to have the article emailed thanks

Alexnia (If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page.) @ 19:44, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

✓ Done – iride scent 19:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Edinburgh South (UK Parliament constituency)

Hi. I noticed that you reverted 80.192.27.63 (talk · contribs) and left a message on their talk page warning them about content removal. However, this edit dif covering their 7 edits shows that they only added, rephrased and rearranged content. They did remove some content in the later edits, but it was only things that they had added themselves (looking at the individual edits I think they were just confused by the election box template and reverted themselves when they couldn't fix it). Can you please review your reversion and the warning you gave to the editor? Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 23:16, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Agree - have reverted my reversion and un-warned. – iridescent 23:19, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Britney Spears

As you are aware, Ogioh (talk) has been uploading copyright images and passing them off as public domain. I went through his contributions and found this image which I doubt he took himself. Based on this edit I believe User:Ray-zin is most likely a sockpuppet of Ogioh. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 20:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Off it goes. Ray-zin has enough of a history that they may just have a shared interest, and AGF isn't stretched too far. Although if Ogioh gets blocked, it will be interesting to see who gets caught in the autoblock. – iridescent 20:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Not even funny at this point.— Realist² 19:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I've issued a warning of sorts. If you want to take it directly to Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images, feel free. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 05:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I took it to to PUI. — Realist² 08:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

As seen here, the user removed the disput in order to prevent the image from being deleted. It should have been deleted yesterday, Sept 19 2008 according to the tag. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 07:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Flight 93

What right do you think you have from denying the truth to every American that was affected from flight 93 and every other incident? You have no idea what happened I have no idea what happened so, you have no right to publish the incomplete truth on this site. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia that is influenced by everyone but from what I have seen is nothing less than a page of fascist lies and half truths when it comes to 9/11.THE Most ridiculous part is the Fact your community would place the flight 93 on the front page on a day like this when over 10 million people do not agree with the commission lies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Al3xtec (talk • contribs) 22:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing that with us. For the information of anyone else reading this, this was The Truth which The Cabal is conspiring to suppress. – iridescent 22:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Is it 2012 already? –xeno (talk) 22:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

What kind of response is that? WHO is in charge? This is a Ridiculous article full of inconsistencies. YOU NEED TO CHANGE IT!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Al3xtec (talk • contribs) 22:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Stop this now. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a conspiracy theory fan forum. If your next edit looks like this you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. – iridescent 22:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I asked a simple question ...and my edits were just a trivial pursuit not a real definition m of my actual editing skill... but my real question is who is in charge and who can i talk to that is intelligent enough to respond in a full educated statement and not a mild threat that i could careless about... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Al3xtec (talk • contribs) 22:58, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Even if the stuff you posted were true, it would have been in rather bad taste to post it today. As to who's in charge, well, so far as you're concerned iridescent is. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 23:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Scroll down to the bottom of every page here and you'll see that the Wikimedia Foundation owns Wikipedia. If you want to talk to the man in charge, anyone's free to post to his talkpage. Or if you want to make a complaint you can take it to Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Unless you have something more sensible to say than you've said so far, expect not to be taken very seriously by any of the three. And as Malleus says, this of all days is not the day in which anyone wants to hear your conspiracy theory. – iridescent 23:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

ehhhhhhh thanks

: ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by but Al3xtec (talk • contribs) 23:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

For the benefit of newer users who haven't yet experienced September on Wikipedia, it won't get much better than this until November. And then all the kids will get shiny new computers for Christmas and it all starts again. Enjoy.

LOL It's ridiculous how much of a tool this site has become.. a TOOL FOR PROPAGANDA...I DON'T CARE ABOUT MY LOGIN ANY LONGER..SO NOW I WILL TELL YOU TO GO FUCK yourself and hopefully when you lose every right to express your self You will remember how someone tried to enlighten this world but your ignorant counsel of convoluted moronic single minded fascists. GOOD DAY SIR (u will see me again as a new name some day soon i will never be stopped) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.0.49 (talk • contribs)

That's us told. – iridescent 01:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Idiocy will certainly never be stopped, he's quite right. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 01:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Idiocy will never be stopped. It can, however, be autoblocked. – iridescent 01:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I've just read about the "Eternal September", and a surge of pessimism and confusion has risen inside me. When did our September start? I'm not sure we haven't always been like that, anyway (with the exception of the first couple of years, perhaps—from what I infer—but that was a different phase altogether).

If the point is that we'll always be in (at least) as bad a state as the one we now find ourselves in, then I believe it has been successfully conveyed. But again, how is it that the concept of knowledge is always supposed to be so distanced from that of idiocy? Idiots are anything but clueless, at least to themselves; on the contrary, they are quite convinced of their views, or they wouldn't present such problems to us "'knowledgeable'". Waltham, The Duke of 01:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Our September dates quite precisely, to November 29, 2005. That was the day the Seigenthaler incident reached the public domain, and "hey, there's this site that anyone can edit and they don't check their facts" started to spread; the whole thing reached critical mass in early 2007 when an unfortunate incident caused every troll on the internet to target us. Personally, I'd say our "September" of fending off an endless rain of trolls and vandals is gradually lifting, for the first time in three years, and you can thank Gurch and his baby for that; the automation of vandal-reversion is depriving them of the satisfaction of seeing their edits go live (our conspiracy-theorist friend's edits were both reverted within 10 seconds [11], [12]) and making them go somewhere else for their kicks, and (Sarah Palin notwithstanding) most articles are now settling into a stable state. Also, the attack sites are by and large either stagnating or hopelessly compromised with Wikipedia editors; /b/ is the last of the troll marshalling-yards with any real bite and they're easily defended against. The fact that our main competitor is very publicly failing isn't hurting, either.

Wikipedia still has major problems – most obviously the messy stratification of the arbitrary adminship procedure in creating a self-selecting elite (in 2003 50% of edits were made by admins; in 2006 it was 10%; I suspect it's now below 5%); the relationships between Jimmy Wales, his private companies, and the (charitable) WMF sites; and the wretched mess that passes for a dispute resolution process. However, for the first time the problems with Wikipedia are internal processes rather than the content itself. Despite the constant volleys of abuse from the "exiles" at WR, we are generally very accurate, and we know what the problem areas are so can watch them. – iridescent 01:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Break: The Wikipedia Code, Hobos, and Hardblocks

: )
←By the way, anyone want to hazard as guess as to what the significance of this particular string of gibberish is? – iride scent 02:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it's rongorongo, a form of proto-writing used by those who can't write to persuade those who can't read that they can. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 02:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping maybe it was the conspiracy-theorist version of hobo code and I was being marked out as someone to be shot come the revolution. (That hobo article is either absolutely fascinating, or an inspired piece of bullshit almost in the league of Wet Floor Sign – "during the 1889 National Hobo Convention in St. Louis Missouri, a code was voted upon as a concrete set of laws to govern the Nation-wide Hobo Body"). – iride scent 02:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

And they say Wikipedia is inaccurate and boring. Pf, the ignoramuses.

I have read about both the Seigenthaler incident and the Essjay controversy, although I did not have the opportunity to witness them unfold. I certainly hadn't realised how momentous the consequences of the former were for the community itself, apart from the institution of the BLP policy (and, I think, the "temporary" banning of article-creation by anons). I only started contributing in earnest in early 2007, and my memories of Wikipedia for the previous three or so years are fragmented at best. This saddens me sometimes, as I have read and deduced that many serious improvements took hold in 2006 and 2007, and I'd like to see the differences for myself.

My information-hungry brain also regrets the lack of documentation for many of the community's memes and running jokes. I've been fortunate enough to be informed about the origins of the "on wheels" meme (it sounds funny enough for those who didn't have to do the reverting), but the Grawp one is more obscure; I realise that documenting these things is undesirable, as it would give vandals and trolls the attention they seek, but I must know. And you are quickly turning into a useful fount of historical information. :-)

Question: I see all these block logs reading "account creation blocked", and it just makes no sense. The user has an account; it's the one the log belongs to. What account's creation is blocked? Waltham, The Duke of 04:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

"Account creation blocked" (aka "hardblock") means that, not only is the account banned from editing, but should any IP address that account has edited from try either to edit, or create an account, they will see this notice:

There's a potted background to the Grawp meme here, along with all our other regular trolls and vandals. The best summary of the background to the whole Grawp vandalism meme is the Encyclopedia Dramatica page at http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Grawp (not linked for a reason); although most of their articles about Wikipedia are a 50-50 mix of exaggerations and lies, this one sums it up quite well. If you're viewing ED from work/school/anywhere there are likely to be other people, turn your browser's images off; also, the usual "don't believe anything you read there" warning applies, as ED is notoriously a place where disgruntled Wikipedians go to settle scores. – iridescent 15:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

This is all very interesting. First of all, the hardblock; I do not recall having ever read the blocking policy—except, perhaps, the amount necessary to help me make the distinction between blocking and banning. I do need to brush up my knowledge of policy. I read all policies and guidelines, a little cursorily perhaps, back in 2006 (or maybe '05). Now they are more, bigger, and more complex, or simply changed.

WP:LTA... So there is a Hall of Fame for vandals. Or just the equivalent of a brochure with the safety features of banknotes. Definitely bookmarked.

Ever since March I've been editing from home and make very rare usage of public computers, so no problems here, although there are obviously more reasons to turn images off before venturing there. I am rather difficult to disgust, but I pretty much hit my limit with the talk page. The person clearly has issues. The funny thing is that Grawp has appropriated the name of an ultimately likeable character; good thing that there is not enough material on him to create a featured article (or even a full article), or we'd have a very strange situation in our hands.

I must hand it to him that he keeps up to date; he attributes the auto-confirmation changes to his influence (doubtful, and I know I was quite involved in that debate), and keeps a scrapbook of mentions of him, like every self-respecting movie serial killer. You know, if Brandt spent his resources tracking down the primary culprit (someone else could take care of the "car accident" part), that would be a boost for his popularity around here. Waltham, The Duke of 02:55, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

The collective unconscious (no, not that one) must have been resonating particularly strongly last week. While the above discussion on WP:LTA and its role as a "hall of fame" was taking place, so was Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Long term abuse. For what it's worth, I agree totally with Antandrus's comment. – iridescent 15:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. I also agree with the decision to keep the page, as well as with the comment you cite. I disagree with Citrouilles's action as much as I disagree with his peculiar selection of username and his most unfortunate practice of italicising "Wikipedia". (I knew I remembered that fellow from somewhere.) That snowball was well placed. Waltham, The Duke of 00:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

LGRdC is now indefblocked under his new username of User:B988a4299d07c0f61fbc8378965438f0, as is his bad hand account, so whatever issues you had with him – and pretty much everyone had at least one issue with him – are now one with Nineveh and Tyre – iride scent 17:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't have any issues with The-One-Whose-Name-Is-Too-Bloody-Long. Well, I found him annoying, and his behaviour in some public venues disruptive at times, but there was nothing specific I held against him (save the aforementioned practice of italicising "Wikipedia", of course). In any case, I'm glad to see him get his comeuppance—although this isn't necessarily the last we've seen of him. (Even I have noticed how many lives some cats have; Jean Latore's posts in the Pump still haunt my intellect.) Waltham, The Duke of 22:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

JeanLatore/Wiki brah you just learn to tune out as background noise. WP:AGF prevents me from making any unwarranted assumptions about this account, so I'm sure it's completely unrelated. – iridescent 22:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Break: On policy creep, long term abuse, and unusual subjects for quality articles

This is blasphemy against The Great God Policy, and no doubt will be quoted against me by one of the gaggle of soi-disant Defenders Of The Wiki who periodically threaten me with RFC, ANI, RFAR, WQA, DESYSOP, AN & DR, but Wikipedia's block policy – like all policies – could quite easily be replaced by "use your common sense". The reasons we have such long, rambling policies are:

Plenty of people here don't have any common sense;
We have way too many kid (or kid-at-heart) editors who treat Wikipedia space as a rehearsal area for their future arguments with their girlfriend;
We have way too many adult editors who treat Wikipedia space as a substitute for their girlfriend;
We have way way way too many editors who treat Wikipedia space as a place to try to get a girlfriend through the sparkling wit of their debating skills and verbal repartee/pig-headed stubbornness. The fact that there are only about six female editors on Wikipedia who read the policy pages and most if not all of them look a bit scary doesn't seem to put them off;
We have a nutty "promotion" process that rewards people who can waffle about minutiae of policy whilst punishing people who can put forward common-sense suggestions and defend them.

The "is LTA a high score table for vandals" debate has been going on since the dawn of time. Noone will ever agree on that, so it stays.

You'd be surprised what can be inflated to FA/GA status given effort (although in-universe subjects always suffer from a lack of reliable sources, especially one like this that hasn't had time to get the academic articles written about it yet). A number of editors are (ahem) beavering away to get Cunt up there, for instance. Pretty much anything that you can find 10 reliable sources on can be brought to at least GA status, given a bit of effort.

The original culprit for Grawp isn't hard to find, if you know where to look; however, most pagemove vandalism (right back to the days of WoW) is down to dimwitted 4chan kiddies who haven't the wit to think of an original means of vandalising Wikipedia. And I think you can safely assume that nothing is going to give Brandt any popularity round here; he's not just "that quirky guy who sometimes posts on Wikipedia Review", he's a guy who maintains a dedicated attack and outing site on anyone he takes a dislike to and one of the primary drivers behind "true" anonymous editing as opposed to the old days of your username being a nickname. – iridescent 16:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, Iridescent. There are at least twelve women editing here. And all of us have been hit on. ;-) Risker (talk) 16:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

This is why you should never confirm your gender or age on-wiki. I get the benefits of "I shouldn't be rude to girls", but as nobody's sure I'm neither a 70-something male with nicotine-stained fingers, only three teeth, and more hair coming out of my ears than on my head, nor an 11-year-old girl, nobody ever quite has the nerve to hit on me. – iridescent 16:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Did that hurt? You know, when you fell from heaven? How you doin?. Scratch all that, I can't do it. I suck at pickup lines, I've been married too long. As far as the "there are only 12 female editors" here, I would submit in fact that there are probably only about 12 editors here, with massive pyschological complexes of multiple personality disorder, each battling themselvs and the personalities of their foes....I'm pretty sure I'm personally about 7000 different editors, as evidenced by my talkpage. Keeper ǀ 76 19:56, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify my above comment, there are at least 12 female editors here, and at least half of us don't look scary. I just look very ordinary, rarely getting a second look on the street (either of attraction or fear), and even my friends have a hard time picking me out of a crowd. With a few exceptions. Risker (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought we'd established that you looked like a cross between Alannis Morisette and John Lennon?

Didn't there used to be a day when talkpages were sane? This thread is currently longer than the entire code of WordStar. – iridescent 20:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Just doing my part to make this thread longer so you have something to link to on my talkpage to complain to whomever is listening that "your talkpage has long threads..." :-) Keeper ǀ 76 20:09, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah yes, quite correct, although Alanis with shorter hair, not the knee-length style. And without John Lennon's beard or wife. I really ought to be doing my work. Risker (talk) 20:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Since I've got two Uninvolved Admins here who don't seem to be doing anything else...

Can someone else take a look at Category:Irish Roman Catholics? This would seem to me to be about as useful as Category:People with ears. – iridescent 20:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

... or my personal favourite, Category:Roman Catholic Popes. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Not all Irish are Roman Catholic, you know. Strikes me there's been a bit of a stir about that, particularly in the northern part of the island. In any case, the category has a pretty good limiting statement, in that the person's Roman Catholicism must play a significant role in their notability, and from what I see that is the case for most of the articles in the category. One exception is Brian Cleeve, whose bio could certainly use some cleaning up and improved referencing, particularly the "spiritual life" section. Not a great category, but certainly beats Category:Canadian rapists. Risker (talk) 20:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC) makes mental note to clean that category up one day

Those in the northern part of the island are British, not Irish. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Please go say that somewhere else... I hear Keeper76 would like to hear the arguments on both sides of that particular debate; he's already interested in someone who's half English, half Irish... Incidentally, anyone fancy explaining the need for Category:New Zealand sausages or Category:Bulgarian chefs, while we're at it? There are probably some redlinks that could be added to Category:Houses in Manchester, too. – iridescent 20:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Keeper76 wants none of this. None, he says. Keeper ǀ 76 20:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

And might I know who gives you the authority to speak on behalf of Keeper76? Waltham, The Duke of 00:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't argue with Keeper. His personal enforcer will hunt you down like a polar bear and shoot you like a moose. – iridescent 16:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

That picture is hot. I can see the pop cans lined up along the fences already... Keeper ǀ 76 18:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

In a bit of almost-too-perfect talkpage circularity, the final (13 September) offering from Cooper Brown – in its entirety – was "God I adore Sarah Palin - I need to boff that MILF." – iridescent 18:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it looks like that's just a compressed-air powered Firearms Training Simulator. Most real AR-15/M-16's don't come with extension cables in lieu of a magazine. Jclemens (talk) 22:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll use my secretary as a shield against Keeper's bespectacled enforcer. I am sure Cartwright will be thrilled with the prospect of his first seven-day leave in three years. Waltham, The Duke of 22:32, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Princess Protection Program

Thanks for the re-re-deletion. Might it be advisable to salt the article, at least for a month or two? And the article talk page too? Just thinking out loud. Cheers! :) --Ebyabe (talk) 17:43, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm reluctant to salt it; as a forthcoming movie from a major studio, there is a potentially valid article to be written on it, and it will undoubtedly be valid when the movie's released. I've left a note on the author's talkpage; I have it watchlisted and will continue to whack-a-mole G4 it as and when it's reposted without addressing the issues. – iridescent 17:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my talk page. Would you please indef block User:EconomicsGuy IV as it is created to impersonate me and apparently vandalize my talk page? Thanks. EconomicsGuy (talk) 18:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Add User:EconomicsGuy III. EconomicsGuy (talk) 18:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Both indefblocked (one by me, one by MBisanz) – iride scent 18:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Tantrum

Fire when ready. Or whatever. Clap. HalfShadow 19:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

✓ Done – iridescent 19:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Did you bring me a Slurpee? I'm sure I asked... HalfShadow 19:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to September! I hope you enjoy the place and decide to stay. – iridescent 19:50, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I think I've upset him... – iridescent 20:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe someone would actually vandalize Pocoyo... That poor little guy. –xeno (talk) 20:12, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Nostalgia Critic Links

I was simply adding an external link to that website as it applied to the subject. If you took the time to look, there are other wikipedia pages that have the same external website that I referred to, yet they are not considered spam. Therefore I do not get your point. If you wish for me to make you a list of all the articles I am talking about, please let me know. I won't do it now, because frankly I do not think you are worth my time.--Brad M. (talk) 23:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC) ALso if you want to talk to me, talk on my page.--Brad M. (talk) 23:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Posted on your talk as per your request, but crossposting here for others' benefit

This link was clearly to a blog, which did not appear to be written by an established expert, and consequently removed per WP:EL. If this site is in fact a recognised authority by Wikipedia standards, by all means re-add it as a source. You might want to lay off the personal attacks, while you're at it.

And I have "taken the time to look". The only other usage of this link on Wikipedia is in the article on the site itself, which is a valid usage (although the article's likely to be deleted soon); in The Angry Video Game Nerd, in a section specifically discussing this site; a link on List of YouTube celebrities, again in a section discussing this site itself; and a recent IP insertion of a link into Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue, which has also been reverted. – iride scent 15:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Sigh… – iridescent 22:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Your vandalism on Mark Zuckerberg

Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. However, please be aware of Wikipedia's policy that biographical information about living persons must not be libelous. Any controversial statements about a living person added to an article, or any other Wikipedia page, must include proper sources. Thank you. It is frowned upon to call Mark Zuckerberg a "sorry piece of shit" on Wikipedia. --Afed (talk) 19:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I dare say it is. It's also frowned upon to throw template warnings about incorrectly without taking the five seconds it would have taken to see who added that, and to think that just maybe I'd be unlikely to be the one inserting BLP violations. – iridescent 19:53, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You expect me to believe that an experienced Wikipedia Administrator like yourself overlooked bald faced libel on the first line of the article? I think it's more likely that you added the slander anonymously and then made a legitimate edit with your account to cover it up. --Afed (talk) 20:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing that. If your only mainspace edit for two months hadn't been this, I might take your conspiracy theories seriously. – iridescent 20:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I guess I'm busted. --Afed (talk) 20:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Come on Iridescent, own up. I think Afed makes a very fair point. I'd never have expected you to be adding anonymous "slander" though; I expect that Afed meant to say "libel". :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeh, Iridescent, we all know you live in Anniston, Alabama, covering it up by writing extensively about London and taking lots of photos there, and your hatred of Harvard dropout billionaires like Zuckerberg is common knowledge... Bencherlite ^Talk 20:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

That's just Deltacom's office in Alabama; the IP geolocates to NY. Cari, is there something you'd like to tell us? – iridescent 20:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I got nuttin' to say unless someone fixes my scripts. Nuttin, I tell ya. This message will self destruct in 5 minutes TravellingCari 20:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

68.165.208.42

Thank you so much for blocking that user, they were becoming quite annoying. I have had to request a checkuser (for using a registered account to do the same vandalism) and page protection on the Office of Strategic Services page because of them. Thanks again....NeutralHomer • Talk 20:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem... Although possibly I actually did the vandalism myself (see the thread above)... – iridescent 20:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I knew it! Vast conspiracy! --Afed (talk) 20:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

hahahaha :) Only if you lived in Washington DC working at TD International.....or are you? <_< Ze plot thickens! DUN DUN DUNN! Take Care and Have a Good Evening...NeutralHomer • Talk 20:32, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible to push this block to 48 hours? The user is now vandalizing the same images on WikiCommons. - NeutralHomer • Talk 21:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- I have no powers on Commons; you need to go to Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Vandalism for that. I'm reluctant to extend the block on Wikipedia, given there've been no further offences (obviously) on Wikipedia. – iridescent 21:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  - Ah, I thought if vandalism continued on an InterWiki site, a block here could be excalated. My mistake. Take Care....NeutralHomer • Talk 21:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, that was my 500th block. Maybe I should give some kind of certificate. – iridescent 21:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

		The Minor Barnstar
		For your 500th block and for your 100th post to Malleus's talkpage, I award you this tiny barnstar :) - NeutralHomer • Talk 21:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

This was my 100th post to Malleus's talkpage, too. Admittedly, I usually do all the "writing and tweaking" edits in userspace, but I have more edits to that talkpage than to any actual article. – iridescent 21:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

hahahaha :) I added that to the barnstar. - NeutralHomer • Talk 21:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

That's quite understandable, I do need to be kept in check. My temperament in particular is highly suspect apparently.[13] --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:56, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Has there ever been a thread on WT:RFA that doesn't end with someone arguing with someone else? – iridescent 22:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Do I need to link here how many edits you've made to my talkpage, Iridescent? I believe you may have recently topped 300. Just sayin. Keeper ǀ 76 21:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

334, apparently – iridescent 21:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh. You bluelink that as if you're proud of it. Heh, LOL Keeper ǀ 76 21:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Ask Gurch if he'll revive this coding for you. – iridescent 22:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Um...what? I don't get it. Either I'm too old, or you've been here too long, or both...Keeper ǀ 76 22:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You've just shown yourself to be part of The Older Generation. Which ironically, brings us neatly full-circle to Mark Zuckerberg. – iridescent 22:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Butoh

I was about to go contribute a bunch of stuff on Butoh, Njinski, Tamano, and Harupin-Ha on the Butoh page. I checked the edit history page to see if I knew anyone, and noticed your name there. Are you a Butoh scholar or dancer? The Tamanos will be performing in the rocks at Joshua Tree next month, at the home of film director Eva Soltes, formerly the home of 20th century composer Lou Harrison. EricDiesel (talk) 03:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

No (well, certainly not enough to comment on); this would just have been one of my periodic trawls through my "extended watchlist" of articles I have enough of an interest in to do the occasional semi-automated AWB skim clean-ups of, but not enough to warrant keeping on my watchlist. The best person to talk to regarding Butoh would be Doctormatt; he's retired, but periodically pops back; if you can catch him on one of his occasional returns from retirement, Dekkappai is also generally very good with Japanese subjects. WikiProject Japan is fairly active and might be able to help, too. – iridescent 15:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Sanity check please (TPWs feel free to pitch in)

Hi there, I have been keeping an eye on the Karla Homolka article for a while; I seem to have picked that up on my watchlist after an earlier discussion on this page! In any case, I've noted that User:208.124.198.234 has come back to start adding "rumours" that Luke Magnotta is/is not married to KH, the latest addition being that he has denied being in a relationship - referenced, even, since my warning on the IP's talk page said BLP additions needed to have a reliable source. The question, for you and everyone else: Having done varying bits of work on this article over time, am I now too involved to block the IP? Does the BLP policy override any level of involvement? Risker (talk) 19:59, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

No, block away. If you were Karla Homolka there'd be a COI – but by the nature of Wikipedia you're more likely to notice changes/vandalism to pages you've worked on. It's not like everyone involved in that wretched saga hasn't been warned enough already. – iridescent 20:01, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure somewhere says that enforcing BLP overrides involvement concerns, although I can't find it right now. Tombomp (talk/contribs) 20:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks folks, I was pretty sure I was in the clear. And no, I am not Karla Homolka. Not nearly as blonde. Risker (talk) 20:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Dilmay

Wierd. Did you post the block note before blocking? Pedro : Chat 21:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Very odd. We must have pulled the trigger simultaneously. (Mine was a - whisper it - Huggle block; even for its worst enemies, it's worth keeping it open in the background just to perform blocks as it's 1000 times more intuitive than MediaWiki; just enter duration and reason, and it blocks, fills in the log, and posts the appropriate notice with a single click). – iride scent 21:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Note before an irate Gurch sees this: I'm not saying I'm Huggle's worst enemy here!

It also checks the sensitive IP address list for you, and also warns you if a block of an IP address will override an existing rangeblock, something that Special:Blockip provides no indication of :) -- Gurch (talk) 23:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It does, however, crash if you try to delete anything as A7 :( – iridescent 00:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it's deciding that "he is cool" is, technically, an assertion of notability and refusing to speedy it just in case... on the other hand, it's more likely I buggered up the deletion code. It will definitely be fixed in the next version, what it not so certain is when that version will be available, at the rate things are going it's looking like some time in 2010... :/ -- Gurch (talk) 00:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for reverting the vandalism to my user page, I appreciate it. I suspect that some registered user I've had conflicts with in the past signed out to make the anonymous edit, but there's no proof of that, of course. Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 21:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Geolocates to a school in Seattle, so most likely Some Random Kid. – iridescent 21:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Danke, you're probably right -- oh my suspicious mind! Ed Fitzgerald ^{t / c} 21:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Ryan Jessup

Hello Iridescent. I, too, was going to speedy delete this article, but according to this other article, this person might actually be notable (appears in the list of actors). This revision looks okay, I wonder why the creator then started vandalizing its own creation. By the way, you really seem to be enjoying vandal-whack tonight; you've already beaten me to the punch some twenty times. :-/ Best regards, Hús ö nd 22:16, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I G6 deleted it due to this diff; f~~eel free to restore a clean version if you want (obviously that one needs to go and possibly warrants oversighting).~~ Clean history restored and the offending diff off to RFO. – iridescent 22:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Huggle

When you removed my Huggle privileges, you forgot to re enable my ability to enable it via huggle.css, after my Huggle privilege was restored. Could you please restore my ability to enable it? Source here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:TylerPuetz/huggle.css&action=history - Tyler Puetz (talk) 22:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Unprotected and reenabled. Obviously, the Usual Dire Huggle Warnings still apply; don't make Gurch shout at you. – iridescent 22:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

It's OK, I'm far too busy shouting at Werdna, who thinks it's acceptable for an automated process to block good contributors provided it blocks a lot of bad ones too. And I mean really automated, not in the Huggle sense, rather the built-in-to-MediaWiki sense. At least with Huggle you can shout at whoever misused it :/ -- Gurch (talk) 23:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

As the de facto High Priest of Semi-Automation, your voice might carry a lot of clout (either way) wherever this discussion ends up, if you're not already aware of it. – iridescent 23:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Heh. I think I'll stay well away from that one, on the grounds that everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten my own use of adminbots, and I have no intention of reminding them -- Gurch (talk) 00:05, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, I noticed my name wasn't added to the 'Account Creators' user group, but I am registered as one on the toolserver. It would be nice to be able to create 6+ usernames a day for the purpose of fulfilling requests. - Tyler Puetz (talk) 22:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to touch WP:ACC; that's run semi-independently, and there may be a good reason you weren't given it, of which I'm not aware. I don't know enough about their mechanisms to advise (and FWIW, can't understand why anyone would want to). I'd advise requesting the permission there, or approaching Stifle direct. – iridescent 22:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The ACC flag can be given to anyone who is active in the account creation process (be it via the list or the toolserver) and has hit the account creation throttle. Since you've never hit the throttle Tyler, you wouldn't be eligible for the flag at this time. –xeno (talk) 00:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Jonathan Cuthbert Murphy

I fail to see how this is a test edit, surely you ment to put on a: db-bio? I'd replace it myself, but don't want to seem rude, please clear that up, thanks! Theterribletwins1111 (talk) 19:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'm more than familiar with the speedy deletion criteria. I can't imagine a more obvious test page than a page reading – in its entirety – What a lovely boy. He attempts to straighten his hair, but fails miserably each and every morning. He loves eels. He is married to Joanna Brown and they have 5 children...George,Dr Borwick, Gemma Craig, Jesus and Bob. There wedding was in GayBoys magazine and they live on a small island just off Scotland.. Anyway, why the hell does it matter whether I delete it as a G2 or an A7? – iridescent 19:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It was clearly a non-notable bio, I myself have been advised by an admin (which I note you are) to not use Nonsense as a reason when nominating, here's a quote from Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion: "Users nominating a page for speedy deletion should specify which criteria the page meets.", I guess it matters as it affects the message sent out to the creator of the page, which could mess them around as to what they are aloud to create in regard to articles, cheers Theterribletwins1111 (talk) 19:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Hoping against hope that my edit here causes an edit conflict so that Iridescent can look at what Iridescent wants to post, and perhaps reconsiders. :-) FYI, I think it was a G3 vandalism, not test page....Keeper ǀ 76 19:38, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

How nice to see everyone agreeing on what this page was, heh Theterribletwins1111 (talk) 19:40, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

(ec and greatly toned down) Did I delete it as nonsense? Did I say at any point I deleted it as nonsense? No to both; a test page is not nonsense. I have no idea why we're having this discussion, but I'd advise stopping now. Looking at your talkpage, it appears that in your two weeks on Wikipedia you've racked up an impressive collection of warnings regarding your unconventional approach to the deletion process. For your benefit, we've thoughtfully collected our policies and guidelines into one convenient place. I strongly suggest actually reading them before you start lecturing other editors about "what they're doing wrong". – iridescent 19:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

British/US English Question

Hi Iri, question for you from this change. I'm guessing ue is British English as I (and google) think cataloging is an acceptable use. Is ue better in the scholarly sense? I'm just curious since despite living in Australia for a time, some of the British spellings confuse me, like artefact TravellingCari 19:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Right, and I've reverted. The fault is with AWB/T, but as Gurch will no doubt take great pleasure in pointing out, users of semiautomated tools have full responsibility for edits made using them. "Catalogue/ing" is the correct spelling in British (and a valid variant in American); FWIW, I don't know where the U came from since the word's obviously derived from "kata-logos". – iridescent 19:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Not for the first time Iridescent, I have to remind you that nobody likes a smartass. :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

That's just as well, nobody likes me. See thread above. And thread above that. And thread above that. – ιριδί ζων 21:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Not so fast, I like you. We smartasses need to stick together. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

If you like smartasses, then one day you really need to discover the joys of Jon Awbrey. – iridescent 21:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, my enthusiasm for wikipedia is starting to run dry, so with luck I'll never encounter Jon Awbrey. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I was just curious if it was one of those +ing that results in a non-word in either British or American English i.e. dialoging. I had someone try to tell me that dialogue came from Latin and then spent ~20 m on the logos root. That broke my brain. Wasn't too worried about changing it back as I knew ue was a valid spelling, I just was concerned that my use, which I know I've used elsewhere, was wrong. I split Brit/American fairly evenly, but there are some that are foreign to me in both - like my screen name in American English looks wrong to me. TravellingCari 21:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

And if I had a dollar for every time I've been told off for correcting "jewelery" to "jewelry" (for American english) or "jewellery" (for the rest of the world), I'd have at least five dollars. – ιριδίζων 21:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a word like license and occurrence that I can't spell for the life of me. TravellingCari 21:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Iridescent/Archive 5

Feels weird

Just testing?

Blind reverts

Audio sample

Incidentally... A Startling Fact

Section break: Landmark edits and Risker the cat

Trinity Life Center

Warrent a warning for disruption or something?

Request for participation in User:Abd/RfC

Revert on my User page

MJ images

James Clement (Survivor contestant)

A favour

Huggle, again (yawn)

Fraserburgh article

Huggle

RE: My user talk and Firearms Unit

Deletion of Internap Network Services Corporation

riot grrrl

Reverting my edit

Travis Oscarson

An update

Help

OK, here's my attempt at being a unilateral Arbcom:

A further suggestion

LM reversion

Barnstar of Respect

Yay

Personal attack and not assuming good fait by User:Emeraude

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colin Carter

Please see my talk page for new messages

RE:

Stalking the Talk Page Stalkers

Talk Page Stalkers:

Extended conversation

Split two separate conversations

Thanks for the link!

Apologies

= MFD

Graphic in top right corner of your talk page...

Heads up: The Shalom Yechiel thread

Response by Shalom Yechiel

Preamble

Analysis of the RFA comments

Analysis of the other RFA comment

Analysis of your post-mortem to my RFC

OK, here goes

Your comments in the "Sudden divergence..." thread

Personal attacks

Conclusion

(takes deep breath) Reply

Arbitrary break: on tl;dr, trolls, and traditional uses of the radish

Note specifically for Shalom

:O

Thanks

Thanks!

Wasilla Assembly of God Deletions

You're evil and I hate you

A new category

Grumblings for you to read

User talk:Justindavila / Collective:Unconscious

Sudden divergence into discussion of unusual heraldic animals

samo505

Wow...

Vandalism on my user page

How to play baseball

Message to User talk:216.120.190.254

GFDL nightmare

Between you and Keep

Worthy of an AfD?

Re: Hellingly Hospital Railway

Cromer Links Halt

New Michael Jackson duet

My RFA

Thanks

Help retreiving Yateesh M. Acharya article

Edinburgh South (UK Parliament constituency)

Britney Spears

Flight 93