User talk:Darouet/Archive 6

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Darouet. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Good afternoon, I'd like to start an RfC about determining the status of the Azov Battalion and what how to describe their links to/descriptions as a neo-Nazi group. I would like you to share your opinion on the format, correctness and content of the questions before I start the RfC.The draft is here. Thank you in advance for your participation. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 16:07, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Szmenderowiecki, my advice is that before you launch an RfC of this kind, you "hit the books" and try to find out what academic journal articles, academic book chapters, and reports on far-right politics in Europe have been saying about this topic.

Right now, the lead seems to give an accurate summary of what I've seen in the past (including a 2018 CSIS report).

But if you wanted to change the page so that Azov is described as a neo-Nazi battalion (on the one hand), or so that any reference to neo-Nazism is removed from the lead (on the other), these changes need to be rigorously supported by a careful literature review. I have not done that recently and sadly don't have time to do so. -Darouet (talk) 17:18, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I have, as you have seen in my post on Azov Battalion talk page. I have mined Google Scholar and Google News for such info, and I have found info for both neo-Nazi claims and against them, but since the article stated at the time of my post it was neo-Nazi, and several users have disputed the claim, I came up with the neo-Nazi claim side (I maybe will have some time for the opposite claim, but I don't guarantee it). The reason I come up with the RfC proposal is that it seems the article is slowly descending into edit warring because of its connection with Roman Protasevich, a very active topic lately, with users alternatively removing and adding "neo-Nazi" from the description of Azov Battalion (adding it sometimes to wikivoice), and I feel that the topic has to be settled once again to prevent edit wars from happening, with the lead probably rewritten to reflect current consensus. I personally don't insist on any version against consensus. Which is why I don't hesitate about whether to start, but rather how to start.

Thanks for the advice, it helps a lot, even if the scholarly resources are sometimes difficult to find. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 17:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh! Haha, I didn't realize that Protasevich had links to Azov. I'm very curious now to read what he was writing about them at the time. -Darouet (talk) 19:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, whether he belonged to Azov (or had links other than a journalist) is the question in dispute, because that's what Belarusian authorities try to assert (that he was a volunteer fighting in Azov and committing war crimes there) but which narrative has many questions and doubts right now. Anyway, please copy the discussion here to the talk of the Azov Battalion. Thanks. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 05:35, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't know anything about Protasevich but I've been reading about Azov for a long while - since early 2014. I guess I'll have to read more about his (possible) Azov time. -Darouet (talk) 22:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Good evening, I would like to notify you that the RfC whose draft you consulted me on has started. It is located here. Yours, Szmenderowiecki (talk) 20:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

On Investigations into the origin of COVID-19 you inserted the claim that "The WHO investigation was praised by many researchers", citing an article in Nature. However, this is a misrepresentation of the cited article which in summary says the WHO investigation was found by scientists to be a reasonable start with many unanswered questions. Terjen (talk) 21:05, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Terjen - the Nature news article says a lot of things, but in context, my wording best reflected it. I explained some of this on the article talk page, but I can expand in the coming days of helpful. Darouet (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

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... for what you said on User talk:SlimVirgin - missing pictured on my talk, with music full of hope and reformation --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:20, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 08:48, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Wow, a note from CAPTAIN RAJU, no less! Thanks so much :) -Darouet (talk) 09:04, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

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Just wondered if you had any further contributions to make to the Assange “Asylum” debate which you initiated a short while ago? Prunesqualor billets_doux 13:22, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi – seems there is a chance of “"Asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy" being adopted as at least a subheading in the Assange article. Your input on the talk page (in the discussion “Asylum” that you initiated) would be welcome, to help get this resolved (if you have the time). Prunesqualor billets_doux 13:57, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

@Prunesqualer: Please read WP:CANVASS. It is likely to be viewed without sympathy at Discretionary Sanctions Enforcement if reported there. You have bludgeoned that talk page for quite some time now, and canvassing is kind of the last refuge of scoundrels in that context.` SPECIFICO talk 15:23, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

SPECIFICO I have politely invited the person who initiated the debate to re-contribute. I am not canvassing for him to go one way or the other. Kindly read the “Appropriate notification” section at the top of Wiki guidance page you linked too. Inappropriate threats should not be welcomed by anyone on Wikipedia, it might be seen as an attempt to intimidate people – please do not to repeat this pattern. Prunesqualor billets_doux 15:52, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Consider whether anyone will find that denial convincing in the event you are reported for what may be considered ongoing disruptive behavior. A clear and polite warning is not a "threat" read our Policies and Guidelines. Up to you. SPECIFICO talk 16:12, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

SPECIFICO Not what I would call a “clear and polite warning” when you describe an editors perfectly reasonable actions as “the last refuge of scoundrels” and bring up the threat of action in the face of what an experienced editor should know is legitimate. Harassment I would call it – If you think my actions here where against the rules go ahead and report otherwise desist. Prunesqualor billets_doux 18:02, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Prunesqualor for your message. I've been away from internet communication for a time, but am back now and actually saw that the discussion about Assange's asylum had continued at Talk:Julian Assange even before finding your message here. Given my longstanding editing interest in the Assange case and the fact that I started the discussion section in question, it's not improper for you to ask me about it, nor would it be a surprise for me to continue the discussion, now that I have access to the internet once again. SPECIFICO, I've asked you numerous times to stop posting on my talk page [1][2][3], since your messages here are invariably inflammatory, factually inaccurate, and include threats or warnings that are baseless. -Darouet (talk) 06:44, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

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Hi Darouet, while you had been invited to join an Arbitration Enforcement discussion in this area a month ago, you have apparently not participated in it, so – bureaucratically/strictly speaking – you are not yet formally "aware" of the sanctions in this area. I'll fix this:

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

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Thanks ToBeFree. Are there any editing restrictions specific to the COVID-19 topic area, or are editors merely being asked to follow best practices in general around this topic area?

In this edit [4], you state that

1RR is an option, but I'm afraid it might benefit violations of WP:ONUS when two editors disagree about existing content, as has happened in Special:Diff/1034355261 very recently.

And link to my edit. Your text seems to imply that my removal of false and highly misleading content from COVID-19 lab leak hypothesis amounted to a violation of ONUS. I apologize if I'm misreading your text here, but is that what you meant? -Darouet (talk) 06:00, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey Darouet, sorry for the confusion. There are no specific restrictions on that page or in the area in general. WP:MEDRS is often relevant, but it doesn't apply everywhere, and there was a long discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Biomedical_information#RFC:_Disease_/_pandemic_origins. about whether it applies to questions about the origin of the disease: In a nutshell, not really.

And your edit wasn't meant as a negative example, on the contrary. You have reverted someone else before, by removing this content. Someone has re-instated it without discussion, and you have removed it again. While you need to be very careful not to edit war there, I believe that your edit has enforced WP:ONUS in a justifiable way. If there had been a "1RR" ("one revert rule") restriction on the article, you would have been forbidden from doing so, as it would have been two reverts. I hence used your edit as an example why 1RR can have negative effects, and why I personally wouldn't apply 1RR to the page. If someone ever does, you'll notice when editing the page, as then a big notice will alert you about it. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 11:10, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, thanks for these helpful clarifications, ToBeFree! -Darouet (talk) 13:59, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

No worries! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:48, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

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I have started a discussion in which you may care to comment at [[5]] Cheers Elinruby (talk) 00:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

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Was reminiscing a bit, which motivated me to drop in and see how you're doing. It appears RL is keeping you busy. I try to maintain contact with top shelf collaborators, and consider you such an editor, despite our different perspectives from time to time. I consider such collaboration/communication an investment in personal growth, and an opportunity to broaden one's horizons. Hope all is well on your end. Atsme 💬 📧 11:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Atsme, wow, it's very kind of you to stop by. Yes, RL has been crazy - I had a kid, you'd find them very adorable! - and work has been bonkers. So I almost never come to Wikipedia to edit any more. Though I still use it as a resource... hoping you are well! One day when work calms down I promise I will come back to editing more and look forward to being able to collaborate again at that time. -Darouet (talk) 13:01, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Congratulations!! 🍼👶🏼🤱🏽 I've got a great grandbaby coming in August this year, and I do find them very adorable!! Atsme 💬 📧 13:12, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

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