User talk:Coretheapple/Archive4

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Coretheapple. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

On 29 December 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Alvin "Shipwreck" Kelly, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Alvin "Shipwreck" Kelly spent over 20,000 hours sitting on flagpoles in the 1920s and 1930s, including hundreds of hours in the rain and subfreezing weather? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Alvin "Shipwreck" Kelly. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Harrias ^talk 12:02, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

I think the RFC could be removed. We had a problem with an IP address who seemed to have a close connection and kept censoring referenced info to make the page sound like a fanpage, while also leaving threats and personal attacks on the talkpage. However, User:CambridgeBayWeather put a stop to that with "Allow only autoconfirmed users" temporarily and it's calmed down now. I've also added a "philanthropy" section to make the page sound more balanced.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

This hasn't received any publicity, and I haven't made a fuss over it because I don't think it's appropriate, but the leaked emails include one strongly implying that her Wikipedia article was a subject of paid editing earlier this year. I am not surprised by what you're saying. Coretheapple (talk) 17:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Wow. I admit I felt very uneasy until the administrator put a stop to the harassment. Is there an article you could show me that says that?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

No it has not been in any article. I saw it in a raw email that was on one of the file sharing sites where that stuff was dumped. Even though I have no particular fondness for paid editing (to say the least!) the email gave me an "icky" feeling and I decided to take no action on it. I didn't copy it or retain a link. Coretheapple (talk) 18:17, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, right. I don't look at that kind of stuff. Did she mention me or was that before we started having problems with her page? Do you remember the date of the e-mail (roughly)?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

The email made no mention of Wikipedia editors, and beyond that I don't feel comfortable describing it in more detail. I'll put it to you this way: even if the email was published in an RS source, I would strongly oppose taking any action against any editor based upon it. Coretheapple (talk) 18:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

OK. As I said, I have never looked at that kind of stuff.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Putting that issue aside, I notice that there is an implied legal threat by an IP on the talk page of the article. It was made on Dec. 20 so it's probably stale, but it should have been reported at the time. Coretheapple (talk) 18:31, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure how to report that kind of stuff. I think administrator User:CambridgeBayWeather must have seen it. My impression was that it was meant to intimidate and harass, and enforce censorship of in-line referenced info. I thought it was stupid--most newspapers used the word "racist" without inverted commas, which is where her problem came from. (She could sue most media corporations I guess.) What I did not like at all about the communication with the aggressive IP address was the personal attacks--I thought it was inappropriate, rude and bizarre. Anyway, I have added some info about Pascal's philanthropic engagements as well--I am sure she is a wonderful person.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

It's definitely a legal threat, and though getting stale I just reported it to WP:ANI. It should be at or near the bottom of the page. Coretheapple (talk) 18:46, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I think that is likely to make things worse frankly, but too late now. (Let sleeping dogs lie, I would have said!) If you can find more about her career, feel free to expand the page.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I've added a short comment at the ANI section. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 20:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Coretheapple and User:CambridgeBayWeather: more edits which seem off topic are being added by yet another IP address. Possibly relevant in "career" section. It looks like the edits are meant to belittle Pascal's racial remarks. It also came with another threat ("don't you dare remove it"). Can you please help? Perhaps protect it again?Zigzig20s (talk) 10:48, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

User:Coretheapple, User:CambridgeBayWeather, User:Murry1975: Personal threat with swearword on my talkpage.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

You should take this to WP:ANI. Coretheapple (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

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Hello

In response to your query to User talk:Jimbo Wales, I am not aware that this person has died. Unless something like this can be backed up by a reliable source then it definitely should not be included in the article. I suspect that this was vandalism.--5 albert square (talk) 01:04, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I suspect so too, and I also think that the broader community might want to know that vandalism resulted in a rather well-known person being declared dead by Wikipedia for two days. (Unless the person doing so was correct, which is possible though remote.) There was no reason to revert my post to Jimbo's page. It was perfectly proper use of the page. Coretheapple (talk) 02:20, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

When I was seven, I had a crush on Bess Myerson. Or...was it Loretta Young???? ```Buster Seven Talk 01:26, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh I had a big crush on her myself. Really, Wikipedia needs more people our age to watch articles like this. But I'm not sure even that would've helped. If you look at the article history, the death edit was in fact noticed by another editor, who reacted - not by reverting the edit, but by building on it by removing a section on her current life! Appalling. Coretheapple (talk) 02:56, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Nevermind!. Turns out it was Veronica Lake I had a crush on. ```Buster Seven Talk 06:30, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: this edit and edit summary [1], it's actually more appropriate to put the content in the article than in a footnote. Casual readers or readers unfamiliar with Wikipedia goings-on-in-editing are unlikely to look at a footnote and will wonder the same as I: when? where?. We're here to inform readers not force them to look deeper for content that can just as easily be inserted in the body of the article. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 17:49, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

You misunderstand my edit summary. Of course that kind of information doesn't go into a footnote. What I'm saying is that instead of tagging "when?", the editor who tagged it should have looked at the footnote at the end of the sentence, which linked to an article that answers that question. Coretheapple (talk) 17:58, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually, it didn't answer the question. Hence, my removal of the related content as irrelevant. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 18:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

No you're confusing the two "when" tags. One tag was about the kid brother. The other tag, the one in which the "when" was answered, concerned her ovarian cancer. You linked to the latter and I was addressing it. Coretheapple (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Whatever. You stated the answers could be found at the references. That claim is untrue. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 18:19, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

No, I was responding to what you linked. This is now the third thing you've misunderstood in three replies. How did you manage that? And haven't you anything better to do than waste people's time? Coretheapple (talk) 18:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Bess Myerson, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Queen Esther. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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I added a plethora of information to support your case on the edit warring page, however an admin deleted it all. Sorry. Clearly when a user has friends in the right places you will never get the correct action. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.9.66.59 (talk) 19:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Not an admin. Coretheapple (talk) 19:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Luke deleted it rather :-) 186.10.6.162 (talk) 20:16, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. For the ease of closing the RFC later, would you consider updating the bolded portion of your !vote to update that view, in case the closer does not fully read the reply thread? Gaijin42 (talk) 19:28, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Done. Coretheapple (talk) 19:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

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[2]. Which is an indirect way of saying "not an admin" NE Ent 22:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't know. Good for you! Coretheapple (talk) 22:55, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

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Hi Coretheapple. I saw some activity today at Jennifer Aniston's awards where Raspberries were added and reverted the section. I also saw this past discussion. Do you happen to know the current status of consensus on this issue? Thank you. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 21:29, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

If memory serves me right, the consensus was that the "awards" had to be reliably sourced. But I'm not sure. There was a big discussion in the films wikiproject. The logic being, as you know, that they are not really awards and don't belong there. I removed them from Faye Dunaway just recently for that very reason. I think that BLP restrictions require it. Coretheapple (talk) 21:39, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

That linked discussion looks inconclusive, but I am pretty sure there was another, much longer one. Coretheapple (talk) 21:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I remember something similar. I also remember an editor who kept adding these and an ANI report had to be opened and a mass revert of his additions had occurred. It seems that they are staging a come back. Already I got reverted by a relatively new user. There are also more articles where these awards have been reinserted and should be removed. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 21:53, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

This is what I have found so far: The ANI discussion and the Wikiproject Film discussion. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 22:10, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh yes, I remember that editor. He was so dedicated to the Razzies that I think he was employed by them. I'll look at these discussions, but it may take a while as right now I have my own ANI nightmare to contend with and also have some off-wiki burdens. Coretheapple (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely, there is no problem. Please take your time. Thank you for considering this. Whenever you have a chance please let me know. Take care. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 22:17, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh that's OK, I'll be happy to look into it. Coretheapple (talk) 22:33, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

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Changed it myself. If anyone doesn't like it they can cut my pay. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:27, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll put you in for a bonus. Coretheapple (talk) 01:28, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

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Please be a little polite. I am having the worst day of my life and I don't need any more block warnings. What I did was a simple mistake which I would have taken back on a simple request. Thank You. MaRAno ^FAN 16:58, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

It wasn't a block warning, as I can't block you. It's just a friendly suggestion that you please, please be more careful. We can't have user topic ban discussions in article talk pages. That and the other stuff is going to get an administrator riled up, which you don't want. Coretheapple (talk) 17:28, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Let me know when you're done working on Bess Myerson‎ and finally nominate it for GA. I would like to review it. Viriditas (talk) 21:54, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Well thank you GA was my aim. I was going to sit down with the Myerson biographies and build it up. I have one and hope to get another. But I've gotten sidetracked as you may have noticed. Often GA nominations are a good way of focusing the issues and dealing with problem edits that creep up and slip by unnoticed. That article unfortunately has been crippled just as some editors were starting to improve it, but hopefully that issue has passed. Coretheapple (talk) 22:02, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Make a task list in your sandbox and see if you can't address the problems over the next several weeks. Looking forward to seeing your progress... Viriditas (talk) 22:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

That's an idea. Or I may just dive in. Next few days I'll be scarce though. Appreciate your encouragement. Coretheapple (talk) 02:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

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110		Mort Sahl (talk)						Cleanup
2,241		Sally Field (talk)						Cleanup
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538		Foursquare (talk)						Unencyclopaedic
13		Alarm sensor (talk)						Unencyclopaedic
55		Keiichiro Toyama (talk)						Unencyclopaedic
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1		Mike Bossy the Scoring Machine (talk)						Orphan
3		Federal Signal Model 2 (talk)						Orphan
37		Unzipped (film) (talk)						Stub
17		The Bold and the Brave (talk)						Stub
18		The Extraordinary Seaman (talk)						Stub
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understanding for the slippery slope
Thank you, gnome with understanding for "consensus", "common sense" and the slippery slope, for removing puffery statements, moving pages, fighting vandalism, standing up in kindness, and for expressing your regrets, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 734th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:39, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! You're very kind. Coretheapple (talk) 16:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

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Heya Core, long time -- I hope you're doing well? Looks like you've been keeping busy here in any event -- which is great, you've always been a good collaborator. I'm stopping by because I'm going to be making a push to revitalize WP:WikiProject Dance soon (I'm going to be requesting mass-mailer privileges briefly here and will be using them to try to improve robustness and consistency in involvement at some flagging projects, something I've been thinking about for a while now and brought into focus by the broader WP:WikiProject X) effort to improve these spaces generally). Anyway, just thought I'd do an informal census of the project first, since our currently paltry selection of signed-on members who have shown any signs of being active allows for that. Anyway, thought I'd drop you a line on the affair, though I will probably contact everyone once activity is underway (going to try actively recruit some more members through watching article edit counts). In the meantime, best regards! Snow talk 03:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, forgive the markedly nosy observation here, but I thought you might want to know that the length of the talk page is creating some performance/loading and must be worse still during peak hours when traffic has lately often brought load-times to a crawl. Snow talk 04:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's a good point, and in fact I was going to archive yesterday but was sidetracked. Glad to hear about the dance project and I will definitely look into it. Coretheapple (talk) 15:01, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I now see why you dislike Winkelvi. (I am deliberately avoiding pinging him.) I didn't research Bess Myerson and don't plan to, but I did get into Meghan Trainor, because I tried to substitute for a previous dispute resolution noticeboard moderator who became ill. I asked whether to resolve the issue by RFC. Other editors agreed. He gave an uncertain answer. I then closed the DRN thread, which I think was my prerogative as volunteer moderator, and now he is complaining. He is right as to whether she meets the current article definition of singer-songwriter, but other editors think that the article definition should be changed. Apparently he wanted the discussion left on hold so that he could make up his mind and decide how to drive it, or how to have the volunteer moderator drive it at his direction to his result. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

A lot of editors don't understand WP:DRN because they think that the volunteer moderator will decide content for them. As you know, Wikipedia doesn't work that way. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Well it is not dislike per se but concern about his behavior. I'd suggest stopping by the still-ongoing ANI thread to report on his tendentious conduct. Coretheapple (talk) 15:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: Oh, this is funny. There was something familiar-sounding about that "singer-songwriter" issue, and then I remembered that I participated in an RfC on when the term is worthy of use. See [3] It was held at WikiProject Music, and as you can see the consensus was that the term should be used when dictated by the reliable sources. I don't know if the results of this RfC have been cited, but it might make an RfC at Meghan Trainor superfluous. I have no idea which of the combatants is aided by that RfC.

Be that as it may, the participants in that discussion should have simply gone to Wikiproject Music and posed the question. Or just gone to the talk page, as searching it would have quickly uncovered that previous RfC. The behavior of all involved has been simply wretched. Coretheapple (talk) 15:28, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh never mind, I see from the discussion that it was cited on the article talk page. I guess they just like fighting. Coretheapple (talk) 15:34, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The prologue, as you said, is that there had been an RFC at WikiProject Music, and it said to follow the reliable sources. More recently there is a dispute as to whether Trainor is a singer-songwriter. Several editors say that she is, and Winkelvi says that she is not. Winkelvi is relying on the older definition, cited at the defining article singer-songwriter, and says that she does not meet the test, and some editors say that the article is out-of-date and should be revised. The issue went to DRN. Then three editors, including Winkelvi, got blocked, and came off block. During the block, it was proposed that Winkelvi accept a topic-ban on Trainor. He agreed to it, but then, when he was expected to wait the full 48 hours rather than be immediately unblocked, he rejected the topic-ban. (Gaming the system?) Then the volunteer moderator became ill, and I took his place, and asked whether to use an RFC to resolve the question. Several of the "yes" editors agreed. Winkelvi gave a vague answer, and thought that maybe the RFC should be at "a music project". I then closed the DRN thread, and Winkelvi now thinks I was hasty to do that without discussion. I see it as he wants everything his way; that is my view. I don't know if anyone else likes fighting. It appears that Winkelvi would prefer to fight rather than compromise. I think that the other editors just wanted Trainor called a singer-songwriter because the reliable sources call her one, even if she doesn't meet the old definition. I plan to leave the DRN thread alone unless I get other advice from other DRN volunteers, or unless he continues complaining. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I think you handled it correctly. On the merits, it's really up to the reliable sources, and we determine such things by consensus. There clearly needs to be an RfC in that article, and anyone can step in and start one. I could myself, if I cared. But again, I would encourage you to describe what happened at the ongoing ANI. While I think it was right for one of those editors to pursue this at DRN, this is really a user-conduct issue. Coretheapple (talk) 17:16, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Please see the talk page at The Promenade Shops at Saucon Valley which is, surprisingly, a lifestyle center. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 17:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

oh my god Coretheapple (talk) 17:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

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You wrote, at ANI: "Closing discussed here." I am assuming that you were adding that comment, after mine, not to address me, but to address other readers, because I think that we agree. Apparently he wanted a volunteer mediator to make his case or work for him. As you can see, I tried to offer an RFC, and when he said that he wasn't sure, he was then annoyed by my closing the thread, as if he thought that I should keep it open until he could make up his mind whether he trusted the community. However, I would like to see the thread on him get either boxed (closed) or archived. (Archived is ambiguous, because the box template is called an archive, but it is really a box, not an archive.) Robert McClenon (talk) 03:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I see. You said for them to look at his conduct. Okay. But there are other dragons I would prefer to have slain before him, and besides I don't trust "the community" to slay dragons. I only trust the ArbCom to slay the right dragons. I would prefer to see the WV dragon hibernate. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:12, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, not addressed to you. Re your second post: I think it would be premature to archive it at this point as an editor has raised additional points re Winkelvi, relevant to the points others have raised.[4] To archive when a discussion is still active seems a bit rushed, even one that has gone on for so long. Anyway, my feeling is that the issues there have been pending a long time and need to be addressed, though one way of addressing I guess is to let it "hibernate" as you say. The problem is that such things have a way of awakening, like the bears in spring. Coretheapple (talk) 03:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

No, make that two editors[5]. Question is, what is to be done? As you say, there may be no solution short of Arbcom and I recognize that. Coretheapple (talk) 03:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding your question: see this edit for all that has been said. isaacl (talk) 19:57, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I saw that, but don't know what he's referring to. Coretheapple (talk) 19:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

From his previous statement, it sounds like Kudpung doesn't want to go into too many details as it involves off-wiki activities, so it's unlikely any more information will be given. Nonetheless, that's the basis of the objection, albeit without specifics. isaacl (talk) 20:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Well it's vague and doesn't seem fair at all to this other editor. Coretheapple (talk) 20:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

It cuts both ways; for something as low stakes as this recognition, it's not necessarily desirable to bring up details of something that happened off-wiki somewhere, which may give it undue prominence and has privacy considerations. Ideally, a community of reviewers for the nominations would build up, providing regular feedback, and after a period, they would grow to trust each others judgment. Unfortunately, it's only happened to a limited extent so far. isaacl (talk) 20:22, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Friendly stalker I like to think that since receiving the Eddy Eric has shown a kinder, gentler side of his nature. Awarding editors is a plus for the encyclopedia and, I think, retains editors. I'm sure Kudpong doesn't agree. The community of reviewers is basically me and John Carter and a few others. More would always be welcome. Buster7 (talk) 03:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I think Kudpung agrees that recognizing editors is a plus, but he seems to be looking for a method of recognition that has a more rigourous process. When we set up Editor of the Week, we chose to work within the limitations we had on getting people to commit to supporting the initiative, and to set criteria that are fairly relaxed, to avoid upsetting people who might think they or their favourite editors are getting overlooked. It may not be ideal, but I believe it is still a net positive. isaacl (talk) 03:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

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"The title of the film was derived from ..." --Moonsurfatsj (talk) 17:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Well thank you, you're very kind. Coretheapple (talk) 17:40, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

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Hi Coretheapple. After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback should never be used to edit war.
• If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
• Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! — MusikAnimal ^talk 00:59, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Don't let it go to your head. The next step is to request Rockbacker status. If approved you would have Rock-n'-Rollbacker status. Then you'd be getting somewhere!!! Congrats! . Buster Seven Talk 06:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Ha! Thanks. You know, I didn't even know there was such a thing until I was pinged on a debate about making Rollback universal. Hey, if it's not universal, I want to join! Coretheapple (talk) 15:59, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

And I have to say that Huggle is a real honey of a vandal-fighting program, the true Cadillac of its ilk. Coretheapple (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

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