This is an archive of past discussions with User:ComplexRational. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Thank you very much for finding a new credible source to reference in the Franco Garofalo (actor) article! I could find no valid source about his death or family life beyond one interview and a IMDb page, so this more credible news reference you brought in is much better and very much improves the article's accuracy. 😇 PetSematary182 (talk) 15:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
This award is given to ComplexRational for 127 reviews in the July NPP backlog reduction drive. Your contributions played a part in the 9895 reviews that took place during the drive. Thank you for your contributions. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 08:27, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
An RfC has been closed with consensus to add javascript that will show edit notices for editors editing via a mobile device. This only works for users using a mobile browser, so iOS app editors will still not be able to see edit notices.
An RfC has been closed with the consensus that train stations are not inherently notable.
Administrators will now see links on user pages for "Change block" and "Unblock user" instead of just "Block user" if the user is already blocked. (T308570)
Arbitration
The arbitration case request Geschichte has been automatically closed after a 3 month suspension of the case.
Miscellaneous
You can vote for candidates in the 2022 Board of Trustees elections from 16 August to 30 August. Two community elected seats are up for election.
Wikimania 2022 is taking place virtually from 11 August to 14 August. The schedule for wikimania is listed here. There are also a number of in-person events associated with Wikimania around the world.
Tech tip: When revision-deleting on desktop, hold ⇧ Shift between clicking two checkboxes to select every box in that range.
You are invited to join the local Wikimedia NYC community for its flagship event to be held all-day on Saturday August 13, 2022 at the Queens Museum, in the context of the 1939/1964 fairgrounds at Flushing Meadows–Corona Park. There will also be smaller sessions for much of August 12-14 (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) as hybrid local gatherings for the global online conference Wikimania 2022.
All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate.
After the last newsletter (No.28, June 2022), the backlog declined another 1,000 to 13,000 in the last week of June. Then the July backlog drive began, during which 9,900 articles were reviewed and the backlog fell by 4,500 to just under 8,500 (these numbers illustrate how many new articles regularly flow into the queue). Thanks go to the coordinators Buidhe and Zippybonzo, as well as all the nearly 100 participants. Congratulations to Dr vulpes who led with 880 points. See this page for further details.
Unfortunately, most of the decline happened in the first half of the month, and the backlog has already risen to 9,600. Understandably, it seems many backlog drive participants are taking a break from reviewing and unfortunately, we are not even keeping up with the inflow let alone driving it lower. We need the other 600 reviewers to do more! Please try to do at least one a day.
Coordination
MB and Novem Linguae have taken on some of the coordination tasks. Please let them know if you are interested in helping out. MPGuy2824 will be handling recognition, and will be retroactively awarding the annual barnstars that have not been issued for a few years.
Open letter to the WMF
The Page Curation software needs urgent attention. There are dozens of bug fixes and enhancements that are stalled (listed at Suggested improvements). We have written a letter to be sent to the WMF and we encourage as many patrollers as possible to sign it here. We are also in negotiation with the Board of Trustees to press for assistance. Better software will make the active reviewers we have more productive.
TIP - Reviewing by subject
Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages by their most familiar subjects can do so from the regularly updated sorted topic list.
New reviewers
The NPP School is being underused. The learning curve for NPP is quite steep, but a detailed and easy-to-read tutorial exists, and the Curation Tool's many features are fully described and illustrated on the updated page here.
If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.
If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
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For those who may have missed it in our last newsletter, here's a quick reminder to see the letter we have drafted, and if you support it, do please go ahead and sign it. If you already signed, thanks. Also, if you haven't noticed, the backlog has been trending up lately; all reviews are greatly appreciated.
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A discussion is open to define a process by which Vector 2022 can be made the default for all users.
An RfC is open to gain consensus on whether Fox News is reliable for science and politics.
Technical news
The impact report on the effects of disabling IP editing on the Persian (Farsi) Wikipedia has been released.
The WMF is looking into making a Private Incident Reporting System (PIRS) system to improve the reporting of harmful incidents through easier and safer reporting. You can leave comments on the talk page by answering the questions provided. Users who have faced harmful situations are also invited to join a PIRS interview to share the experience. To sign up please emailMadalina Ana.
Arbitration
An arbitration case regarding Conduct in deletion-related editing has been closed. The Arbitration Committee passed a remedy as part of the final decision to create a request for comment (RfC) on how to handle mass nominations at Articles for Deletion (AfD).
The arbitration case request Jonathunder has been automatically closed after a 6 month suspension of the case.
Miscellaneous
The new pages patrol (NPP) team has prepared an appeal to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) for assistance with addressing Page Curation bugs and requested features. You are encouraged to read the open letter before it is sent, and if you support it, consider signing it. It is not a discussion, just a signature will suffice.
Thank you for supporting the NPP initiative to improve WMF support of the Page Curation tools. Another way you can help is by voting in the Board of Trustees election. The next Board composition might be giving attention to software development. The election closes on 6 September at 23:59 UTC. View candidate statement videos and Vote Here. MB03:21, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
@Drmies: Thanks for the notification. Is this the diff in question? If so, how come reverting is inappropriate – is this a known vandal (which I usually don't consider unless I see a pattern or am otherwise made aware of one)? Complex/Rational15:50, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, we know this person. Reverting is useless because all of the edits have to be revdeleted, and I just did that for the one you linked (thanks for the reminder). So it's more work for us, because they'll just revert until someone makes them stop--and then the history of the article becomes their trophy gallery. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:56, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
I know it just seems wrong to leave that stuff in, but it is what it is. There's a bit of background on my talk page, much of which unknown to me, though I knew about these edits already. It seems especially wrong because rollback is such a quick and powerful tool, and NOT using it is difficult: I speak from experience. There were a couple of Recent changes folks hitting rollback, and I just wish that we had been able to come up with a filter sooner. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our Annual Election/Members Meeting. To join the meeting from your computer or smartphone, just visit the Zoom link on the meetup page.
Once your block expires, please take into consideration the advice left to you on your talk page, or you risk further sanctions if you continue the same editing patterns. You already seem to have an idea of how some wiki-markup works, but using unconventional language and formatting makes articles hard to read, if not factually inaccurate. I know it's a long read, but you may also find helpful advice at Wikipedia:Citing sources (Wikipedia's guideline on citing sources), as well as Help:Introduction to the Manual of Style (a basic tutorial of Wikipedia's style guidelines). Additionally, making such substantial edits is not a good idea unless you're somewhat familiar with the article's subject. Complex/Rational02:07, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
We will celebrate after Wednesday's Chapter Election, share some food, and informally discuss wiki-plans for the coming year.
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Following an RfC, consensus has been found that, in the context of politics and science, the reliability of FoxNews.com is unclear and that additional considerations apply to its use.
The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to Preferences → Gadgets and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.
Arbitration
Remedy 8.1 of the Muhammad images case will be rescinded 1 November following a motion.
Hello, thank you so much for helping me review one of the pages I've created! Since you're definitely more experienced than me, I also wanted to ask you some tips in regards to draft and article creations.
Lately, I've been working on some drafts about footballers at the start of their respective professional careers: I usually try to stick to the page scheme you already saw for Panada as a general model, so I can add all the necessary data and links. However, while a couple of my drafts did get approved, some have been rejected due to a lack of significant coverage and/or reliable sources, even though I felt like I did my best at adding sites and articles I could trust fully.
[Actually, I should admit, one of those players hasn't even made his professional debut, yet, so that might have been part of the problem...]
I've already had some helpful conversations with other users, but I'm still confused about the general coverage criteria, so I wanted to ask you: how can I make sure my sources are as high-quality as possible? And, which is the minimum standard of information/statistics I should aim for while creating a new page (or draft)?
I hope I've articulated myself as clearly as possible. I'm keen on working on full pages more and more in the next future, so every type of help is hugely appreciated! : D
Since the deprecation of the notability guideline for footballers earlier this year, footballer articles are required to meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline, i.e., to have citations to multiple independent reliable sources with significant coverage. Although it's written to be objective, there tends to be some room for interpretation, but a common standard is 2–3 reliable sources that are unaffiliated with the subject and unrelated to each other that dedicate at least several paragraphs, if not their entire length, to the subject.
To answer your questions more directly, a source is usually high-quality if it has some standard of editorial review and is widely considered a "go-to" source. And for article development, you'll want focused coverage – brief mentions in headlines, lists, or statistics in databases are not sufficient coverage by themselves. For instance, for Italian footballers, publications such as La Gazzetta dello Sport, Corriere dello Sport, and Tuttosport are pretty mainstream and reputed (notwithstanding some degree of bias), so detailed coverage in those is generally enough to sustain an article. Conversely, one-sentence market rumors or club press releases stating a transfer and nothing else are not significant coverage, nor are stats pages (though those are useful for adding content to an article whose subject is already demonstrated to be notable), so an article sourced entirely to those has little chance of being published or kept.
The article I reviewed, Simone Panada, just about has enough in my opinion, and as his career blossoms, more sources will certainly be published. And you are correct – even prior to the deprecation of the more specific deadline, players who have yet to make their professional debut were generally not considered notable, except in the rare cases that enough sources existed and/or they are notable for reasons other than being a professional footballer. Usually, players who only appear in lower divisions or haven't yet made their debut won't have much written about them (as Panada did not when making several bench appearances for Atalanta); the longer their career in top leagues, the more sources will exist, and the more an article on Wikipedia can develop. Were there specific declined drafts you had in mind?
Thanks for your creations! I hope this explanation is helpful – and feel free to reach out again if you have additional questions. Happy editing, Complex/Rational02:04, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
@ComplexRational I was thinking about this draft (which is the one about the player who hasn't still made his debut) and this other one, specifically. I didn't mention them before, because I thought it would have been quite shameless...
Understood, but I've still got one more question: is it possible to propose new sites to be added to the database of "reliable sources"? I know there's an open window for discussions on that front, but I don't know where to find it.
Anyway, thank you very much: you've been hugely helpful! : )
@Oltrepier: For the two drafts you linked, I can see why they've been declined. I would indeed recommend waiting a bit until they accumulate more appearances on the field and more coverage in reliable sources, especially because it's generally harder to come by for Serie B and the Cypriot top tier than for Serie A and other top European leagues.
Regarding the database of reliable sources, are you familiar with these lists? I'm unsure what the standard procedure for proposing additions is, but a good place to start might be the discussion page of WikiProject Football.
You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for Wikidata Day in NYC, an event marking the Wikidata 10th Birthday with a celebration and mini-conference. The all-day event will feature beginner workshops, keynote presentations, breakout group discussions, lightning talks and yes, CAKE.
All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate. Brooklyn Public Library encourages the wearing of masks when indoors, and especially be mindful of those in your proximity.
A few days ago, new page patrollers got the backlog to zero. Due to the unprecedented success of the backlog drive, it will be ending early—at the end of 24 October, or in approximately two hours.
Barnstars will be awarded as soon as the coords can tally the results. Streak awards will be allocated based on the first three weeks of the drive, with the last three days being counted as part of week three.
Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.
Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to MPGuy2824), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to John B123 for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also.
Software news: Novem Linguae and MPGuy2824 have connected with WMF developers who can review and approve patches, so they have been able to fix some bugs, and make other improvements to the Page Curation software. You can see everything that has been fixed recently here. The reviewer report has also been improved.
NPP backlog May – October 15, 2022
Suggestions:
There is much enthusiasm over the low backlog, but remember that the "quality and depth of patrolling are more important than speed".
Reminder: an article should not be tagged for any kind of deletion for a minimum of 15 minutes after creation and it is often appropriate to wait an hour or more. (from the NPP tutorial)
Reviewers should focus their effort where it can do the most good, reviewing articles. Other clean-up tasks that don't require advanced permissions can be left to other editors that routinely improve articles in these ways (creating Talk Pages, specifying projects and ratings, adding categories, etc.) Let's rely on others when it makes the most sense. On the other hand, if you enjoy doing these tasks while reviewing and it keeps you engaged with NPP (or are guiding a newcomer), then by all means continue.
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Backlog:
Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!
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This award is given to ComplexRational for collecting more than 25 points doing reviews and re-reviews, in the October NPP backlog reduction drive. Thank you for your contributions. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 09:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Worm Gear Award
This award is given to ComplexRational for collecting more than 7 points per week doing reviews, in the October NPP backlog reduction drive. Thank you for your contributions Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 09:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
I'd actually like to see 231Pa+48Ca, probably producing 275Rg or 276Rg, for completeness' sake. The odd proton should help against SF, and they might have a solid chance of closing the gap between hot and cold fusion isotopes and decaying to known regions of the nuclide chart. JINR already did 232Th+48Ca and 238U+48Ca, so this should have a cross-section large enough to achieve something. And as for the target, they already did 226Ra+48Ca. (Not to mention using 249Bk and 249Cf.) There's not much point to 227Ac+48Ca, as the half-life's shorter and it'd just end up one alpha down on the decay chain.
JINR already did 239,240Pu+48Ca, so it makes sense to continue the light-isotope campaign. 235U+48Ca takes you one alpha down, but that might still be useful as 284Fl just decays instantly by SF (and they never found 283Fl). Cross-section probably worse though. 241Am+48Ca and 243Cm+48Ca would seem quite reasonable tries, per the old Zagrebaev paper. Returning to 251Cf+48Ca would be something too, though with current US-Russia relations I fear the prospects for using Bk and Cf at JINR may not be good. And, if I might as well keep dreaming, 254Es+48Ca. It would probably be worse than 249Cf+48Ca, but it probably has a better chance than anything else to make 119. (Incidentally, if JINR gets stuck at Cm, they'd be doing the same reactions as Riken. Riken has been trying since 2018 of course, but who knows, maybe they will break the world's worst cross-section record in a few years.)
Indeed, an interesting read. I could also claim to have a wishlist... will we see 291Fl or more neutron-rich isotopes anytime soon? Still hoping they do 250Cm+48Ca for those, but that leaves out the odd-Z elements unless electron capture can compete with alpha decay/spontaneous fission in even-Z elements.
And here's one more thing I found, and will add in some capacity soon. One of the talks discusses theoretical cross sections for E121 in the reactions 252,254Es+50Ti and distant pipe dream 258Md+48Ca (!!!), though it won't be a dream worth pursuing unless the cross section record is improved by at least an order of magnitude. Complex/Rational19:34, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
An RfC is open to discuss having open requests for adminship automatically placed on hold after the seven-day period has elapsed, pending closure or other action by a bureaucrat.
Tech tip: Wikimarkup in a block summary is parsed in the notice that the blockee sees. You can use templates with custom options to specify situations like {{rangeblock|create=yes}} or {{uw-ublock|contains profanity}}.
Hello, ComplexRational. You have new messages at Talk:TRAPPIST-1. Message added 09:02, 2 November 2022 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
In keeping with the online conference's partnership this year with Mapping USA and theme of "open knowledge allies", we are highlighting OpenStreetMap NYC efforts and other local organizing around various communities of practice.
All attendees are subject to Wikimedia NYC's Code of Conduct. In addition, to participate in person you should be vaccinated and also be sure to respect others' personal space, and we may limit overall attendance size if appropriate. Brooklyn Public Library encourages the wearing of masks when indoors, and especially be mindful of those in your proximity.
yes it is a neutral opinion, because this man is standing with his people and 90% of Iranians love him,saying my opinion isn't neutral is like saying hitler wasn't evil. 5.134.180.58 (talk) 17:58, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Then add a reliable source (such as a reputed newspaper) substantiating your claim – which if true, should be relatively easy to find. Otherwise, as you wrote it, it's nearly impossible to distinguish from a personal opinion. I should also say that such an addition would belong with appropriate context in the body rather than the short description, as it creates an impression of bias or undue weight in its brevity. Complex/Rational18:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
There are a few places I'll look and tidy up (basically anywhere saying that there are ≥252 stable nuclides now), though now I'm second-guessing my counting ability :) I hope there aren't too many similar updates that have been collectively missed. Complex/Rational22:34, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
I just Ctrl+F'd my way through NUBASE to cross-check the list of stable nuclides. The correct number is indeed 251; I should note that NUBASE2020 incorrectly lists 78Kr, 124Xe, and 130Ba as stable whereas observations of their double electron capture have been published in the literature. Off to correcting I go... Complex/Rational22:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Glad to hear that's cleared up! I was rather worried once I realised that we'd somehow overlooked one for over eight and a half years. There's a review of searches for such slow decays from 2019.
Indeed, I was worried about that myself. It would definitely be prudent to semi-regularly check the literature for new observations of slow decays. And since this list of theoretical slow decays includes essentially all the nuclides stated to be observationally stable on WP along with predicted half-lives, do you think it would be helpful to include it as a citation? Complex/Rational19:15, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the Wikimedia NYC community for our WikiWednesday Salon, with in-person at Brooklyn Public Library by Grand Army Plaza, in the Central Library's Info Commons Lab, as well as an online-based participation option. No experience of anything at all is required. All are welcome!
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Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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Technical news
A new preference named "Enable limited width mode" has been added to the Vector 2022 skin. The preference is also shown as a toggle on every page if your monitor is 1600 pixels or wider. When disabled it removes the whitespace added by Vector 2022 on the left and right of the page content. Disabling this preference has the same effect as enabling the wide-vector-2022 gadget. (T319449)
Arbitration
Eligible users are invited to vote on candidates for the Arbitration Committee until 23:59 December 12, 2022 (UTC). Candidate statements can be seen here.
The arbitration case Stephen has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 1 December 2022.
A motion has modified the procedures for contacting an admin facing Level 2 desysop.
Miscellaneous
Tech tip: A single IPv6 connection usually has access to a "subnet" of 18 quintillion IPs. Add /64 to the end of an IP in Special:Contributions to see all of a subnet's edits, and consider blocking the whole subnet rather than an IP that may change within a minute.
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