User talk:Austronesier

This user is aware of the designation of the following topics as contentious topics: article titles and capitalisation the Balkans or Eastern Europe discussions about infoboxes, and edits adding, deleting, collapsing, or removing verifiable information from infoboxes the region of South Asia (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal), broadly construed, including but not limited to history, politics, ethnicity, and social groups pseudoscience and fringe science the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes) He should not be given alerts for those areas.

• Archive 1
• Archive 2

Hi Austronesier, I have been looking into East Timor lately, and have come up on the question of early population. I understand the traditional "wave" model varies base on what people count as a wave, for Timor it's something between 2-4. However, I am unsure whether that aligns with recent thinking. This paper seems to show 3 waves (Fig 8), but talks about a traditional two-wave model. Anyway, I was wondering if you were more aware of current thinking/current sources (especially on Timor), or perhaps whether it may be better to be vaguer when trying to summarise. Best, CMD (talk) 03:05, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis: It's a pity that this paper does not say much about Timor, although some modern samples are included. I can't tell you how exciting all this research is for someone like me who does historical linguistic research with focus on the Sulawesi and (linguistic) Wallacea areas (plus one major western Indonesian "distraction"). Archeology[1] and genomics point to three major population waves into Nusantara, associated with Australasian, "Austronesian-like" East Asian and "Austroasiatic-like" East Asian ancestries, but the latter seemed to have had little impact on Timor (and eastern Wallacea in general), expect for a little ingression that might be related to later gene flow from western Nusantara in historical times.

As for History_of_East_Timor#Pre-colonial_history, it is obviously quite outdated with its mention of "proto-Malays" and stuff like that. –Austronesier (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of work needed on that History article, not sure if I have the wherewithal myself. That Simanjuntak chapter sticks to just Java and Borneo, but the nature paper does have NTT samples and present-day West Timor samples (a much more informative paper than the final abstract line "Neolithic dispersals into Island Southeast Asia are associated with the spread of multiple genetic ancestries" would suggest). It makes sense to me that getting from prehistoric Java along the Sunda Islands was much easier than getting to the North Moluccas. Still, while interesting on its own terms, I agree it is unclear what the long-term impact was. Through the second source I did find this extensive paper, which suggests that many of the commonly accepted archaeological markers of Austronesian expansion are limited in appearance on Timor, although they obviously did arrive. It doesn't provide clarity on what the existing cultures were, but presumably Australasian/Papuan. I think I'll use those sources to craft a very non-specific sentence for the main page, thanks! The linguistic work does indeed sound exciting. CMD (talk) 13:17, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis: Unrelated to this, but a familiar topic for you: I am afraid that "alternative" Philippine history silently is finding its way back into WP, e.g. here[2]. And it's all the OR again, e.g. this[3]. I've only noticed the extent of it now because it's getting pushed into Indonesia-related articles too. –Austronesier (talk) 21:16, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it ever left, certainly it never got cleaned up from even the main History page. Academia.edu should definitely be sent to WP:RS/P, it has been discussed many many times at WP:RS/N. CMD (talk) 03:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis: This is the latest one[4]. –Austronesier (talk) 10:47, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there - regarding this edit of yours, firstly thanks(!) and secondly, do you remember where that discussion is you refer to in your edit summary? No problem if you can't find it. As I recall, there was general agreement amongst project members to trim variant languages back to just one (Indonesian). Multiple languages seem to be creeping back in.

I'd be interested in your thoughts - and the broader Indonesian project - in the inclusion of provisional mottoes. For me, they seem a bit meaningless...more like political slogans that actually tell us very little. But perhaps as a non-Indonesian, I'm missing something and they are important. Otherwise, I'd like to propose that they be removed from the infoboxes. (I often feel that people just squeeze as much stuff into infoboxes as they can with the result that a lot is irrelevant).

Incidentally, there were no less than 7 language variants in the Dutch East Indies article (including Tamil and Arabic - I'm sure readers found that very useful ha ha). I trimmed it back to Indonesian and Dutch. --Merbabu (talk) 23:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

oops - it was actually User:Ckfasdf who referred to previous discussion. But the rest of my comments/questions above still valid. :) --Merbabu (talk) 23:34, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

...and, it was even linked in the edit summary. What a great conversation from a diverse range of editors. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia/Archive_9#Province_infobox_photos... --Merbabu (talk) 23:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Merbabu: I think mottoes are fine as long as they are official, not just transitory (e.g. confined to temporally restricted tourism campaigns), and somehow visible in daily life (e.g. on logos). Just like the US state nicknames and mottoes. Or Tut Wuri Handayani as the motto of the Department of Education which is omnipresent. And of course unlike the shitty made-up city nicknames which mostly appear in Google searches in popup- and ad-infested websites, but not in any relaible sources. –Austronesier (talk) 13:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Merbabu: Talking about meritless bloat, you might be interested to see what's going on in Melanesia. My main task was to sucessfully remove the fringe POV of Maluku and Moluccans being considered part of Melanesia. Since this entailed the removal of useless repetitive country name dropping, it has caused offence with a LOUT-socking chauvinist SPA (who btw thinks I am Malaysian LOL). –Austronesier (talk) 10:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, I recall seeing your efforts there. Is the issue ongoing? --Merbabu (talk) 10:57, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Merbabu: Now it's only the lede thing about New Guinea. Not a big issue, but the version pushed by the SPA is simply not reader friendly and only serves the purpose of increasing visual presence of the word "Indonesia" all over the place. This guy causes lots of intricate errors (and also huge imbalance) in many pages by (mostly) adding Indonesia only (e.g. history of Greater North Borneo languages). –Austronesier (talk) 11:03, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In case you don't have access, Ringe et al. don't seem to mention Corded Ware at all in their paper that uses the impressive sounding ( for the early 2000s, I guess) 'perfect phylogeny algorithm' and 'software' (the "In other words..." part looks like pure OR... scrap the lot, I say! 😁)  Tewdar  18:29, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, didn't realise there was *no* source given! It's "Indo-European and computational cladistics"...  Tewdar  18:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tewdar: I am baffled that an experienced editor could add so much uninhibited OR, so Ive given them the benefit of a tag. I only looked up in the "trailblazing" paper from 2002 and couldnt find anything of the like. But who knows, maybe Mallory or s.o. else came to such conclusions and we're just not aware of it 😆–Austronesier (talk) 19:15, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, at least we can confidently start the Proto Albano-Germanic article now, thanks to these phenomenal results... early Corded Ware, I reckon... 😂  Tewdar  19:47, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, you’re one of the editors who warned about lack of sources. See [Special:Contributions/Zahamey]. ANI? They see, to have just ignored the warnings. Doug Weller talk 18:45, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller: Jeez, that's a recurrent pattern of them (User_talk:Adakiko/Archive_4#Problematic_editor) and ripe of ANI. I suspect they are also behind the IP edits in Songhai people, but that's another thing. –Austronesier (talk) 18:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn’t seen Adadkiko’s page but I posted to them earlier. I could block but I think if neither of you two do I’ll go to ANI tomorrow. It’s 7pm here and my wife an I are watching tv while I use my iPad but this needs time and my PC. Doug Weller talk 19:06, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller: I don't think I will to it tonight. I've just enough energy for some monthly gnoming (typos of "indigenous"). –Austronesier (talk) 19:35, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don’t blame you, I’m just browsing my watchlist. Doug Weller talk 19:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have just posted this[5] on Talk:Austronesian peoples. I have done so with some trepidation, as I am repeatedly misinterpreted on this matter by Obsidian Soul, who then gets angry – mostly about things that I have not said.

I appreciate your attempt to calm things down. However, on the subject I have just posted on, there are unresolved issues on the understanding of the correct sourcing of a photo and its accurate captioning. These arise largely because there is no definitive source to confirm exactly what is in the picture. In many cases, I would just drop the matter. But the incorrect interpretation I initially made of the photo is the same that many with an interest in sailing rigs would make. That incorrect interpretation would leave the reader doubting the competence of the article. It would be avoided by a better caption.

I note, incidentally, that Lakana still has an error in it – I have previously removed one instance of the article saying the sail was a crab claw sail but on checking back on it now, I find the error repeated in a picture caption. I seem to get no acknowledgement (let alone credit) for correcting careless editing errors (yes, we all make them). Yet I am unable to make progress with something which is a more complex problem.

I have no idea on the solution to this matter. However, I do not feel it is helpful to the Wikipedia project to allow myself to be bullied into silence. I do not necessarily look to you to do or say anything. However, it seems courteous to you to give you this update.

Thank your for your patience in this matter. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your talk page is like a sort of eastern european novel I havent got the grasp of yet,

I must say that I find any generalised notions/labels/tags of anything south east asian and indonesian leave me quite phased as to whether validity exists - there is a part of my universities library special collection where a deceased area specialist donated books from a whole industry of attempts at explaining places with book titles that are now very unfashionable... so to answer your question - nah give me a cave on the nullarbor anytime - may you long continue to reflect a buzzing and generous intellect that takes care of the detail - simply put - I dont like unqualified labels, even if they have been used by x. So what? cheers JarrahTree 02:25, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JarrahTree: As for my latest ping, I don't think of these things as intricacies, but rather massive bullshit. –Austronesier (talk) 20:44, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

wow I even suffer the ignominous fortune of being proliferated in some shakespearian sense to the domain of the nationalist novelist? as xenophobic as the rest... the propinquity of such damned spot of being dunked into the infinite worm of the inter play between pods of the same pea but with a very slight variant in the dna of, the realm of the peninsula squabbles of nothing (nothing comes from nothing my lord)... nope I am not unpacking all that, dank u, mungkin spaseebo JarrahTree 01:01, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I believe you need to see this. Regards. - 117.201.118.17 (talk) 10:01, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@IP: Thanks and peace! –Austronesier (talk) 19:25, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks and welcome. Would you kindly check these as well? Thanks. - 117.201.116.204 (talk) 11:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, please have a look at this. Seems unnecessary and possible POV (addition of languages belonging to one group only). Regards Fyl. - 117.201.113.114 (talk) 10:48, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Yes, that's imbalanced. –Austronesier (talk) 21:20, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, judging by this user's edits e,g- [6] [7] (rv by uanfala), [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], they seem to be a POV pusher. Please do the needful. Courtesy pin Uanfala. Reg Fyl. - 117.201.119.26 (talk) 12:02, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Uanfala: Have a look at [13], [14] and the above ones. Regards - 117.201.119.26 (talk) 19:05, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see this. Thanks - 117.201.112.188 (talk) 12:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyl: I will take a deep dip into the Brahmaputra and Indus some time in the next days, promise :) Cheers! –Austronesier (talk) 12:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

... Thanks mate. Have a nice day . - 117.201.112.188 (talk) 12:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at [15], especially this POV - a "Northwestern Indo-Aryan", apart from the insertion of South Asia, which can also be seen here. Also see this, which has been reverted. - 117.201.114.183 (talk) 12:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, User Austronesier
I hope you are doing well
I saw that you recently reverted by edits on Urdu article, apparently the population of in the article was presented 30,000,000 meanwhile in Muhajirs it is presented as 15,000,000 keep in mind that population of Urdu speakers in Pakistan is mere 7.5% and estimated 15,000,000 as someone from Pakistan i believe it is my duty to oblige and provide information, the two Pakistani news articles which i presented also showed the figure and I did what was based on 2017 census of Pakistan.
Thanks for understanding.
⭐️ Starkex ⭐️ 📧 ✍️ 18:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do whatever you feel to be your duty and obligation, but don't forget to click on the links you add and to actually read the sources. Only then make the appropriate changes to the article. –Austronesier (talk) 18:57, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I forgot to mention that that was theory. Tamil may or not be the mother of Dravidian languages. But the theory that Tamil may be the one. If there are any sources to dispute the claim, you're welcome to add them on the article rather removing the information. Thanks! Bobwikia (talk) 17:45, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"May or not": that's what we call WP:false balance. Obsolete nonsense that is only upheld in some circles for ideological reasons is not due for inclusion, see WP:PROFRINGE, except maybe as a historical sidenote. Take this to Talk:Dravidian languages. –Austronesier (talk) 17:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Austronesier, what is the best way to deal with problematic IPs constantly inserting awkward wording, changing language names, and adding uncited claims, such as Special:Contributions/82.58.201.16? Lingnanhua (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The easiest way to handle this is by their unsourced edits: revert, then warn from level 1 to 4. If they are using dynamic IP addresses, you can ask for page protection. Beware of WP:3RR, but I will have an eye on these pages too. –Austronesier (talk) 21:09, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot. Lingnanhua (talk) 03:48, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

deep dip into the Brahmaputra and Indus - I wish I had your breadth of knowledge and youth and energy... keep up the great work!! JarrahTree 06:59, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

permisi pak - disini ada nafas menarik -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_12 the discussion in there about babel issues... JarrahTree 10:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JarrahTree: I've been out of town (off to Pommyland from Kartoffelland) last week and only had a chance to chuckle ("youth"!) but not to reply. My only interest in Babel is in its library, an antecedent to the categorization system of Wikipedia. Btw, have you seen the weird writing in Ethnic groups in Indonesia? –Austronesier (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at this. Likely the same person [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.119.146 (talk) 11:26, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@F.: Yes, that's very obivous. I can remember to have restored the deleted part myself more than once. Actually, it needs a rewrite. It overemphasizes (a bit at least) superficial non-structural similarities (such as the phonetic realization of /a/) which have little bearing on the actual classification. One cannot talk about the position of Bhojpuri in the IA continuum without mentioning its mutual intelligibility with Awadhi. As usual, it's all political. For Bhojpuri activists, calling the language a pure and simple Eastern IA language serves a handy purpose, while those who want to keep Bhojpuri in the Hindi demographics would rather sweep the manifest deep historical connections of Bhojpuri to Odiya and the Bengali-Assamese languages under the rug. –Austronesier (talk) 20:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

always good to see you emerge from under whatever it might be currently, hahahaha

is the reply to the project comments that you make, or perhaps the hindi acchaa...

keep the faith, and keep moving! I plan to be somewhere else in a few months, I must give you the details in an email... JarrahTree 09:14, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Austronesier,

I am uncertain of what you are referring to in this edit:

And no, "tongue" is not what we use in an encyclopedia unless when talking about the organ

Tongue means "language" in English, such as "mother tongue", "native tongue", "foreign tongue", and so on.

• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/tongue (def. C)
• https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/tongue (def. 2)
• https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tongue (def. 3a)
• https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/tongue (def. 3)
• https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/tongue (def. 5)

021120x (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a stylistic question. "Mother tongue" stil sounds fairly encyclopedic to me, but "Anglo-Saxon tongue" instead of "Anglo-Saxon language" belongs to a "flowery" register that is to be avoided per WP:MOS. You will hardly find modern academic or (non-pretentious) popular texts that use this kind of language. –Austronesier (talk) 16:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Hate to bug you, but you are much more experienced in language related articles than I am. Could you take a look at this article and let me know what you think. I can't get a machine translation of one of the sources, this one, and I do not think the other one is a reliable source. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 16:28, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Onel5969! No worries, I'm happy to assist you in the formidable task of NPP when it's about language-related and Indonesia-related stuff.

I have seen the article shortly after creation and I don't find it as problematic as Aluk Todolo at least contentwise. The topic is again notable and has WP:SIGCOV in reliable scholarly sources. I will try to add better sources in the next days.

The first source is borderline. It clearly does not pass WP:SCHOLARSHIP (which in IMO should be the backbone of an anthropological article), but the site has at least an editorial staff, so it is still ok as a supplementary source once better sources have been added. The second one is an amateur blog (admittedly a good one), so not appropriate for WP.

To sum up, in this case I believe tagging is sufficient. –Austronesier (talk) 19:56, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, thanks for the input. I had already marked it reviewed and tagged it, having come to the same conclusion. Always nice to get confirmation from someone more knowledgeable in a certain area.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 19:58, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Austronesier Sorry to break the bad news, but the reverting sockpuppet is back, under the name Signaler62. He must be blocked, again, for good. Fdom5997 (talk) 00:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Austroasiatic languages, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Wilhelm Schmidt.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 08:12, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can I revert Oghuric languages to this? I can't see any reason not to. Volgabulgari (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Volgabulgari: I can spot a number of reasons (apart from the poor writing which admittedly was a pre-existing condition). I'll discuss this later in detail in Talk:Oghuric languages, please be patient. –Austronesier (talk) 16:44, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I will await your reply. Volgabulgari (talk) 16:51, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

😂  Tewdar  15:18, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tewdar: Basically, I am with Rsk6400, but sometimes, he's too quick with his reverts based on what I often perceive as too cursory judgement. –Austronesier (talk) 15:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Austronesier, I have to admit that you are right. Thanks for correcting my error at East-Eurasian. Rsk6400 (talk) 06:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was really taking the piss out of our archaeogenetics articles rather than you ("primary source[...]should be used with extreme care" made me chuckle). It was an easy mistake to make. BTW that article was a review, not a primary source.  Tewdar  07:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here’s an interesting take on the usual pro-Turkic pov pushing on Hunnish topics: [24] I’ve never heard anyone try to make a Lallwort cognate argument before- I suppose it will be onomatopoeia cognates next!—Ermenrich (talk) 11:36, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. Hate to bug you, but would you mind taking a look at this article and give me your opinion on it? Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:22, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Oh boy. You put me into a Randy in Boise rage. That guy is CIR on steroids, making up "languages" and "ethnic groups" (e.g. Torajan Muslims) based on ephemeral characteristics. I think I should gather input in WikiProject Indonesia to get him TBAN-ed. Dunno if other editors in the project will fucking care; they have been quite indifferent to similar antics by other problem editors.

Coastal Poso simply is a dialect of the Pamona language predominantly spoken by Muslims in the Coastal Poso area, and it differs from the interior Pamona variety spoken around Tentena (= the prestige dialect) as much as the Black Country dialect differs from Brummie English. There is no WP:SIGCOV about the Coastal Poso dialect that would justify a standalone. And there is not a single source among the references cited in that new content fork that treats this dialect as a distinct language. Just take a look at the blockquote from Adriani, which is manifest proof of it. –Austronesier (talk) 21:28, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I was thinking, but I wanted a second opinion from someone with more specialized knowledge in the area. And I agree, a problematic editor, I do not know how many of their articles I've nominated for AfD/PROD. This will be another one. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:34, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mind if I quote you in the deletion nom?Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:34, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Only the second part of it :) Or just do an AfD (but try redirecting it first), and I will chime in. I won't delete my uncivil rant here, but that's not meant for further use. ALthough I do have to bring this up sooner or later in the Project talk page or, if things won't change, to ANI. –Austronesier (talk) 21:39, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- I wasn't thinking about the the first paragraph, I was going to use the first 3 sentences of the second paragraph. This editor has a history of simply reverting redirects, so don't know if I'll bother with that. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:45, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: another one has mushroomed up[25]. –Austronesier (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. I moved several of their articles to draft in the last few days. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 09:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Adequate sources are given to keep or potentially expand the content on Akshumite empire and the Amhara (a book from the Library of Congress archives and more). Could you please help closing the discussion? It seems going no where at this stage. Thank you. Petra0922 (talk) 13:34, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Austronesier yes I had a source but I didn't know how to add it to the edit page but the website is isuu.com/zigula. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 22:11, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Austronesier! Since you seem to have some experience in Austronesian languages, could you perform the merge recommended at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Poso Pesisir language? I suspect you will do a much better job than I. Gratefully, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 10:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Arbitrarily0! Sure, I'll do in the next few days. –Austronesier (talk) 11:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you much! No hurry. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 13:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think of this one? I draftified it, hoping it would be improved, but it was simply returned to mainspace. Would like your take. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:40, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: My take on this is here[26]. The page creator just machine(?) translated the article from Indonesian WP (id:Suku Poso Pesisir, of course without attribution), but didn't check (= didn't care) if the sources are accessible. Which of course means that most likely they haven't even read the sources. I'm considering AfD.

I also still have Torajan Muslims on my to-do list. It's not an ethnic group, but just Torajans who happen to have embraced Islam, without however forming a coherent social group. The sourcing is highly problematic as it contains material from proselytizing organizations talking about indigenous beliefs as an obstacle for conversion. Not quite NPOV. –Austronesier (talk) 20:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Check also the latest display of disruptive incompetence by a tag-teaming editor (page move from Poso Pesisir people to Kaili people) after the latter was draftified. Btw, the Kaili people are definitely a notable topic. –Austronesier (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, a bit problematic. But then again, some folks think that of me. . Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Oh geez, you might have occasionally gone a tad bit too far while earnestly working to keep shit out of WP, but that's a quite a different thing from deliberately (or at least care- and recklessly) adding outright misleading/fraudulent material. Btw, you can also notify WT:INDONESIA for such matters. I have it on close watch, and there are some awsome Indonesian editors who really care about quality the of information in Indonesia-related topics (like Nyanardsan and Ckfasdf, to name a few). Can you move Draft:Kaili people back to main space? I will curate it later; having the article is better than leaving the target blank (which led to this weird concoction earlier today) . –Austronesier (talk) 23:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I can move it back, but have to request the redirect be deleted first, since it is blocking the move. However, there is quite a bit of unreferenced material. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 00:47, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I've seen you active in linguistics topics before. I wonder what do you think of these edits [27] [28] [29]. A user has apparently went on a crusade to question the designation of Serbian, Croatian, Bosniak and Montenegrin as languages. There is a LOT of edits like this [30], and they're all based on ridiculous actions such as adding a citation needed template for Serbs in North Macedonia speaking Serbian. While I am aware that from a linguistic point of view these languages are basically the same, politics also plays sometimes an important role. This mass wave of edits looks to me as highly disruptive and I was seeking for some place to take this all to notice. The linguistics WikiProject talk page looks dead so I was thinking of straight up reporting this user to WP:ANI but I'd like a second opinion. Super Ψ Dro 09:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus: I can recommend WT:LANG, which is generally more active an potentially draws more attention than WT:LING. The user you mention has a very idiosyncratic approach to matters of ethnicity and linguistic classification. See their talk page and also Talk:List_of_contemporary_ethnic_groups#Ethnic_groups_and_languages. –Austronesier (talk) 20:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Akatziri. --Kansas Bear (talk) 12:49, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kansas Bear: As of now, I'd say "possilikely" in SPI jargon (behavior-wise). This POV[31] is quite telling, as it has been pushed by @Volgabulgari before (see Talk:Hunno-Bulgar_languages). And the user page (based on @BrownEyedGirl's user page) looks like self-outing ("I've been here before..."). But oddly enough, I couldn't find any Pritsak-pushing in a quick glance at their edits, so either they're trying not to be completely obvious, or it's really someone else. –Austronesier (talk) 14:22, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, these [32] [33] look familiar ain't it? Wasn't there a sockfarm that POV pushed Urdu in all Hindustani related articles? Forgetting the name. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Holy dung, don't remind of that one. User:Muhammad Samiuddin Qazi (sami) is the name. No, I don't believe there's a connection. "Sami" had the writing style of a 10-year old, while the bold novice editor writes and argues like a mature person. I mean, they even got a point, but probably went a bit too far. Also the POV is quite the opposite. For "Sami", everything is Urdu, and he'd have gladly accepted an Urdu-based ethnicity article. –Austronesier (talk) 13:52, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that Sami guy . I remember, this is not him. I'm forgetting a lot :( This guy does look like an old user. There were quite a few making such edits. There was an diaspora guy I got into a revert war with who was hellbent on adding ethnicity in the SD / lead. He got banned ultimately, but there are many like him. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this edit necessary, considering there's an RfC going on? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: It's premature, and also not really an improvement. I've reverted it for the meantime. –Austronesier (talk) 18:23, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this an improvement, especially the 'Europe' part, when the region included parts of Kazakhstan? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:43, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: What made me chuckle was the cluelessness of the three "improvements" when I saw them on my watchlist. I mean, it is better than just vast "Eurasia", but maybe dropping "Europe" would be the best. –Austronesier (talk) 20:24, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused regarding this. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:38, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder what's with this user's liberal usage of language classification in related ethnic groups parameter, when many of the said groups either speak those languages as L2 or had a recent shift. I've rm/rv'ed some of the obvious [34] [35], [36]. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:03, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is recurrent a pattern of their editing. They treat a) linguistic classification as rigid taxonomy and b) mistake linguistic classification for a tool to "classifiy" ethnic groups. Rsk6400 tried his best to explain to them that these are quite different things, but unfortunately, as you have witnessed, with little sustainable result. –Austronesier (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like we have new one (you crossed paths before), while mostly active on a particular editing area, now trying to have a "discussion" with an obscure user, surprisingly on the something very common among the SPs. This one is also obvious. Another obvious one, who participated in t/p discussions. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:28, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Can't say much about the last one which is a pretty inactive account. They've mostly done copypastes, and their mixed "forensic linguistic profile" reflects this. The former needs to quack more; I can't spot forensic linguistic clues yet. –Austronesier (talk) 20:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this edit helpful. I mean, I've read that the word means 'head man', but is it relevant here? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:39, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Sorry, a bit late, but yeah, you're revert is the best thing to do exactly for the reasons you have given. Btw, do you also feel that the first two paragraphs of "History" are off-topic? It is based on the conflation of "Munda" in the narrow sense denoting a specific ethnic group with "Munda" as a label for an entire language group and its speakers. –Austronesier (talk) 18:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Seems like the "Munda peoples" article started of as a list, extra things got dumped from various articles including the "Munda people" article overtime (see the edit summary on this one ). I have added/copyedited some parts here using secondary sources, trying best to make it not look like a research paper. And yes, they seem off topic for this specific modern group. It would be better if the first two paragraphs are moved here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should we proceed with this? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Yes, go ahead. I can contribute little at the moment because I have to focus on a couple of IRL projects in the next few weeks, but I will watch and assist, especially in case someone insists on keeping the prehistory of the entire Munda-speaking peoples in the Munda article. –Austronesier (talk) 19:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I'll do it next week. Could you please have a look at these. I've reverted the Punjabi language one which seemed blatantly disruptive. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: The changes to Indo-Aryan languages are massive and unsourced. Admittedly, the section Groups is extremely hard to maintain with NPOV when Aryaman's great table shows how divergent the existing proposals are. But that's no reason to introduce these rather massive changes without sources (even modifiying sourced content!) and discussion. –Austronesier (talk) 19:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted. They have removed maps and all, that's disruptive. I didn't see that before. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please have a look at this. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: I can't revert this without insulting someone. Really I can't when I see this kind of total idiocy, not even after taking a deep breath. Bro, save me from being blocked for incivility and revert it quietly... :) –Austronesier (talk) 18:12, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like our friend is on a spree adding DIY diagrams in articles today. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: I bit my tongue and made a partial revert in Chitral with a friendly edit summary.

The Western Eurasian diagram looks like a highly problematic good faith effort to plot the unplottable (especially when considering all admixture events that are not captured in such a format). It is even more problematic than the Eastern Eurasian diagram which you already had critcized for its SYNTH and simplicism. What immediately struck my eyes is the placement of the Villabruna cluster. It has a clear affinity with Anatolian hunter-gatherers, unlike the latter it just lack Basal admixture. I'll try to figure out which of the individual nodes are well-supported and salvageable before I start a discussion. –Austronesier (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These plots may well get removed from commons if reported for OR, not to mention SPI. They have a habit of adding OR legends (and other texts) in diagrams copied from papers, perhaps to suit their narrative, and yes there are multiple IDs active at the moment here and in commons. Thanks for the rev in Chitral article. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:04, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This one seems to be another prx (I've seen them in 'those' articles) Are we witnessing another GHBH? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:11, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Well, it's not quite GHBH since neither of them is "bad". If they're the same person, it's just a monologue turned dialogue, which is silly at the most, but not disruptive. But I don't think so. The one who regularly mispells "perhaps" should know by now that I'm very much not into Y-haplogroups :) –Austronesier (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at this change. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:42, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See this. This guy was quite active on this article and the geolocation is also Tky, may also be the other more famous one. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 20:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Not much POV to see in these edits, except for the addition of the Hindi term in Devanagari plus Latinized transliteration. I'll leave it to you to remove it based on India-specific policies. I don't feel strongly about it; while Hindi is the official language of the territory, it is of little relevance to the Jarawa and Sentinelese.

I'm usually against infoboxes in articles that cover a collective of ethnic groups, unless they are really definable and commonly treated as a collective group in RS's—which is the case for the Andamanese. So it's ok here I guess. –Austronesier (talk) 21:05, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Indic Script part was taken care of (in the article above), as well as other things. Have a look at this one. Is it correct? The user has some POV issues as well as WP:IDHT as far as sourcing is concerned. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:29, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like a sock of WCF or a related one, seemingly replying to your comment [37]. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:11, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at these changes, especially the "some extra Basal- and Ancient East Eurasian inputs" part, considering he's been playing with sim coords and third party calc. Regards. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: Just try WP:BRD. The editor is responsive and cooperative. I mean, the East Eurasian thing is there (deeply hidden in the Supplementary Information of the preprint), but of course not citeable. As for the guy replying in Talk:People_of_Assam, that looks like s.o. else. Not just GHBH, but really a different individual. At least, that's what my gut feeling says, which still appears to work quite well :) –Austronesier (talk) 19:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Austronesier, are you aware of any study on the origin and spread of the culture of areca nut and betel leaf? I am, of course, interested in the chewing and the chewing style aspects of it, but I am more interested in the areca nut as a cultural object with possible symbolisms associated with it.

My interest is because areca nut chewing is very common among the Khasis who speak an Austroasiatic language. In Assam the nut is chewed after fermenting it---if you know that happen elsewhere, could you please let me know. But the raw nut when it is still green and sometimes attached to the bunch, are traditionally exchanged or gifted on special occasions (marriage, etc.) It is said that on such occasions, the areca nut symbolizes fertility.

I hope you can point me in the right direction. Thanks!

Chaipau (talk) 13:30, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chaipau: I know more about the terminology than the actual cultural practice. Most languages that I have studied have three different words, one for Areca catechu, one for Piper betle and third one for the prepared betel chew (with a derived verb "chew betel"). I haven't much come across it, since betel has become marginal in most parts of the Philippines and Indonesia, except for the still common use of Piper betle in Indonesian folk medicine. A good introduction is Betel Chewing Traditions in South-East Asia by Dawn F Rooney, which I guess will answer most (if not all) of the things you're looking for. –Austronesier (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. This is awesome! I wasn't aware of this work. Chaipau (talk) 14:28, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You do know that Kuliak Songhai and Kunama arent spoken in Sudan or South Sudan and that they arent indigenous languages in Sudan right?. Kunama is spoken in Eritrea, Songhai is spoken in Mali, and Kuliak is spoken in Uganda multiple sources report this. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 21:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I do. Which is why I restored the original text. I have assumed that you have overlooked the word "excluding". Now that I have pointed it out to you, there is of course another good faith explanation for your edit, i.e. incapability to parse the sentence. –Austronesier (talk) 21:43, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I already explained earlier that the Hadendowa are Muslim and follow Islam and no source is needed to prove it as it's well known that they practice Islam. Cookiemonster1618 (talk) 19:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cookiemonster1618: I don't how many people already have tried to explain to you the basic policies of Wikipedia including WP:V. It appears that you are unwilling or simple incapable of working cooperatively in this project which includes accepting certain house rules. And apparently, it has already backfired on you. See you in 48h, when your block expires. –Austronesier (talk) 20:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome. I'm happy to help to the best of my capacity, but I can't say I enjoy going through these lengthy removal procedures...

BTW, you were right in this edit description I've just tracked down: [38]. If Saribu is Eiskrahablo, then so is Blackman Jr. since no one else seems to think that minor local languages are regulated by Indonesian bodies (w:id:Bahasa Sula Baku + Natuna Malay). In fact, there's quite a few dubious (and suspiciously similar) language articles in the Indonesian Wikipedia, but I've never done anything. And since they're reproducing their stuff globally (Q118173650), I think swift action needs to be taken. Would you be willing to assist me? Semmiii (talk) 09:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's also this: id:Suku Mayau, an article about a Sangirese community in Ternate, created by yet another account. Judging by their edit history, they seem to think that I am Eiskrahablo, which is sus :) Semmiii (talk) 09:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Semmiii: Oh dear, it is already tedious enough to follow and clean