Template talk:Godzilla/archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Template:Godzilla. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

• How is The H-Man a tie-in film? Deleted.

Is it entirely appropriate to include the creators (Tanaka, Tsuburaya, Honda, Ifukube) in this template? Their careers have all encompassed so much more than their contributions to the Godzilla franchise, and it seems especially inappropriate to end the four articles on them with this template.—4.131.46.35 18:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

The Creators are gone from the template (though they may return); Bambi Meets Godzilla doesn't seem to warrant mention any more than Daniel Dumile (alias "King Geedorah"), as it's unofficial fan use. Probably more contentiously, the "Tie-In Films" incorporate movies into the franchise that have contributed daikaiju and been worked into storylines—from Mothra vs. Godzilla incorporating the events of Mothra to Godzilla: Final Wars incorporating elements from Gorath. By now i'll argue that the "Film Franchise" definitely includes these films as well. (See the review of Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. at GojiStomp for some specifics.)

Another point: The template is getting pretty hefty; should it be broken into a strict "Film Franchise" template and a "Merchandise" (comics, TV, maybe even daikaiju) template?

As the one who started this template, it upsets me to see it shortened down to just four links. I know it needs to be a specificaly "Film Franchise" template, but only having the original and the crap film being the only ones on there? That's just weak...--FigmentJedi 22:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If the template includes Godzilla: The Series under American Productions, why not The Godzilla Power Hour? Lusanaherandraton 04:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure how old this template is, but wiki has made a NavigationBox template made especially for this. With the previous template, I had serious problems with the navigation box conflicting with the infobox. Specifically, if the article doesn't have enough information the navigation box is moved up into the article making the page look very unorganized. This way, the navigation box stays at the bottom of the page. Other than the sections headers being moved from the left side to the top, there are NO other cosmetic changes to the template. If you think this poses serious problems, revert and then discuss.

If you know another way of doing it, revert it back to the old template and do it please. If I knew, I would've. Jonmwang 14:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I have a hard time seeing why that section is on the template if they have absolutely nothing to do with Godzilla. The only connection is that Toho made all the other films. If those films are to be included, then the title name should change into "Toho films."

So, can someone logically fill me in on why those films should be included?. . . . 'cause to me, it makes no sense that other random films are on the template.

By the way, there was no consensus with a good reason for the films to be on the template. Crazilla decided to add a "Tie-In Films" section; then FigmentJedi changed it into what it has become now. — Enter Movie (talk) 02:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Many of the films are tied in with each other, both narratively (Mothra, Rodan, Varan, Frankenstein Conquers the World or have appeared in Godzilla video games, (The Mysterians, Matango, Dogora, The War in Space). As associated or potentially-associated films, they belong in the template, and should not be removed without a discussion and consensus. Such removals without discussion could be construed as vandalism. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 16:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure the Mothra, Rodan, Frankenstein, etc. films are connected with Godzilla since they (or their enemies) would later appear in the one of the Godzilla films, but the other films are not. Is Dogora, The War in Space, The Last War, etc. in any continuity of the Godzilla franchise? And all because the creatures from those films have little cameoes from video games doesn't mean the film they're in has a connection with the Godzilla films. Just add the necessary films that are connected with the franchise. — Enter Movie (talk) 22:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I have plenty of Japanese marketing materials that group these films together. They go together as much as animated Disney films or Univeral Monsters films go together. Please stop deleting the information until a consensus has been reached and stop trying to control the template. Your edits appear to me to be vandalism, as paring down the template of related films is unnecessary and undesirable. I don't mind if you restructure it as you have, but do not delete information in the process. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 15:16, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It's 'cause you never responded. Like I've said before, a consensus was never reached so you also have no right to add other films. And your proofs and evidence are weak. Not all of the Disney films and Universal Monsters films are connected except for the sequels and crossovers. I know Rodan, Mothra, Frankenstein, Varan, etc. are crossovers (hence the reason I added them), but the others aren't. The only relation is that they're made by Toho and that some of those films are made by the same team of the original Godzilla, but it still doesn't make it part of Godzilla. It's like saying Scream is part of the Nightmare on Elm Street series because Wes Craven is the director. By the way, they're not vandalism if the films aren't related. And if you do have proof, please list them, like the Japanese marketing materials you stated, instead of simply ignoring my comments. Thank you. — Enter Movie (talk) 23:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The films are related, just as the animated Disney films are related and have their own template. Unfortunately, I would a) have to find that catalog, assuming it's even in my apartment and not in storage in my mom's house, and b) learn how to read Japanese beyond basic katakana. Besides, this is not a matter of discussion for only two people. If you want to remove a significant chunk of data, there has to be more than two people in on the discussion. It was completely unnecessary for me to respond and completely inappropriate for you to remove the information. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 15:40, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree with comments by Enter Movie. Also, the accusation of vandalism is completely absurd. Addhoc (talk) 15:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Removing relevant material is vandalism.

One of the vandalism warnings reads as follows:

If you continue to blank out or delete portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did to Template: Godzilla, you will be blocked from editing.

How can you say that enter Movie has not blanked out or deleted portions of template content. Therefore, the accusation of vandalism cannot reasonably be considered absurd. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

The accusation is completely absurd - the difference between a good faith editor and a vandal should be obvious. Addhoc (talk) 19:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of information that is appropriate to the template, particularly when that removal is contested is hardly a good faith edit. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at Wikipedia:Assume good faith.--Addhoc (talk) 19:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

It is not good faith when he continues to remove the information after the removal has been contested. He was being bold, but his continuing to delete this information after it is reverted are becoming a nuisance, and I don't approve of him removing that portion of the template. I think we need an arbitrator here. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 20:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the template being renamed Toho Science Fiction, bu then people will likely start adding fiction and horror films. the other problem is having separate templates. To take Godzilla off would undermine the Toho Science Fiction template, while to have both a Godzilla template and a Toho Science Fiction template will clog the godzilla pages unnecessarily, or else leave off pertinent information. It's better that it be left as it is, in terms of titles included. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 20:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

For your information, the Disney template is named "Disney theatrical animated features," not "Cinderalla films" or "Snow White films." Go watch Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Cinderalla and come back and tell me if they have any connection/continuity that bridges the films together. And the "catalog" thing was just a lame excuse. If they were really connected, a reliable third-party website would say it's connected, such as the official Toho website. And how would you know the Japanese marketing materials were true if you can't even read Japanese? You can't verify if they're connected. Plus, maybe we should bring an administrator to sort this out. I think this is getting out of hand. — Enter Movie (talk) 22:53, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

A content dispute is not vandalism, and you have no right to claim as such on my profile. I've asked J.D. Lees to offer an opinion on this issue. He may even have the document I refer to. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 16:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

About time you replied. I know a content dispute is not vandalism. But in this case it is, because you continue to revert my edits without discussion. The first thing you said when I re-edited the template was "rv undiscussed deletions." Undiscussed is the main word. You say that, but you seem to avoid to discuss this current situation. How do you resolve a dispute without discussion? So you try to rename the template but the template name is kept. And this probably the hundredth time I've said this too: You're adding original research that you can't verify. Even when a consensus is reached, you still continue to revert.

"Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Reliable sources are necessary both to substantiate material within articles and to give credit to authors and publishers in order to avoid plagiarism and copyright violations. Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in an article and should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptional sources."

When have you ever proved that Tomei Ningen, Half Human, The H-Man, The Secret of the Telegian, The Human Vapor, The Last War, Matango, Dogora, Latitude Zero, Fancy Paradise, Nihon Chinbotsu, Prophecies of Nostradamus, ESPY, Visitor to the Pupil's Center, Blue Christmas, Deathquake, School in the Crosshairs, Daijōbu, My Friend, Sayonara Jupiter, Portrait in Prussian Blue, Nineteen, Tokyo Blackout, Princess from the Moon, Zeiram, Mikadroid: Robokill Beneath Discoclub Layla, Supergirl Reiko, Nostradamus: The Prophecy, GUNHEAD, and Nihon Chinbotsu are relevant to the Godzilla franchise? Never. And if this J.D. Lees really does have these Japanese marketing materials as you say, I'd like him/her to come here and provide the proof to get this over with. Thank you. — Enter Movie (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the addition of the other Toho science-fiction films relevant and neccessary to the template? Scottandrewhutchins claims that "Toho has a catalog listing all of these science fiction films together on a flowchart," and that Tomei Ningen, Half Human, The H-Man, The Secret of the Telegian, The Human Vapor, The Last War, Matango, Dogora, Latitude Zero, Fancy Paradise, Nihon Chinbotsu, Prophecies of Nostradamus, ESPY, Visitor to the Pupil's Center, Blue Christmas, Deathquake, School in the Crosshairs, Daijōbu, My Friend, Sayonara Jupiter, Portrait in Prussian Blue, Nineteen, Tokyo Blackout, Princess from the Moon, Zeiram, Mikadroid: Robokill Beneath Discoclub Layla, Supergirl Reiko, Nostradamus: The Prophecy, Gunhed, and Nihon Chinbotsu are relevant to the Godzilla franchise, but he has yet to prove this. Even the Wikipedia content policy says that "encyclopedic content must be verifiable." But apparently, Scottandrewhutchins doesn't want to discuss this dispute and continues to revert edits without proof, evidence, or reliable, third-party published sources that claims this (espcially Toho), so I'm requesting for a comment. Thank you. — Enter Movie (talk) 20:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Hang on, in regards to "But apparently, Scottandrewhutchins doesn't want to discuss this dispute", I can see this user has replied 8 times to the discussion titled The "Other Toho Science Fiction Films" Section above??? Ryan4314 (talk) 02:58, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but he doesn't want to continue the discussion, and the dispute hasn't been resolved yet.. He still hasn't proved that the "other science-fiction Toho" films are related to the Godzilla franchise. — Enter Movie (talk) 17:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

How are Baragon, Gorosaurus, King Caesar, Manda, Minilla, Moguera, and Varan "main monsters?" They are nowhere near as important as the others listed as Main Monsters. Even some of the Villains are more important, case in point King Ghidorah. Kant2k6 (talk) 07:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The Godzilla movies and the Related movies in this template appears to be listed in chronological order, while the Monster section featuring the monsters of the very same movies appear to be not in this order (Godzilla, Anguirus, Rodan, Mothra, Mechagodzilla???????????, etc.) - I think they should be in the same chronological order by their first appearance from a movie of the movies section.

Concerning the debate here about which movies (and thus which monsters) should be listed here, I would say that in general it's OK as it now is, and that movies related to the Godzilla movies should be given here as it now is, and that the related movies are neither not only those who feature things/monsters which later appear in the Godzilla movie series (e.g. various Godzilla movies featuring monster Rodan of earlier movie "Rodan") like "Mothra" (1961) - or vice versa the Rebirth Of Mothra series or the re-appearance of King Kong in "King Kong Escapes" after having been a Toho monster before with "Godzilla vs. King Kong" - or are referred therein to it (if there would be an own wiki article about it, the walrus Maguma should also be featured, not only because it's a daikaiju of a Toho eiga, but its movie "Gorath" is even featured in "Godzilla: Final Wars", see on this page above), playing in the same cultural universe, nor those all Toho sci-fi/fantasy movies. No, the related movies are all those movies which either play in the same kind/style universe ("King Kong Escapes" even if its Gorosaurus would later not have appeared in "Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters" and "Godzilla:Final Wars"; or "Gorath" even if its daikaiju is not featured in a Godzilla movie directly), obviously including those movies featuring monsters also appearing in the Godzilla movie series (e.g. Rodan, Mothra), or movies which are in that way related that they are of the same kind made, the same style, the Toho made (dai)kaiju eigas, including e.g. "Space Amoeba", "Matango", "Gorath", "Dogora", "Latitude Zero"(although its "dai"kaijus are a bit small but big enough, I would suggest), but not the Toho made sci-fi-/fantasy/mystery movies (like e.g. "The Invisible Man", "The Big Battle In Outer Space", "The Space Princess", etc.) without monsters (they should all together be in another list/template of Toho made sci-fi/fantasy/mystery movies, though). So the Godzilla-movie-series-"Related movies" in this Godzilla template are "Related movies (other Toho (sci-fi) (dai)kaiju eiga)", and they should be included here of course, because they are related so much in its content, style, kind, that there's no doubt that they ARE related and belong together, what is common sense also. So I think that that movie selection is a compromise for the debate that both sides should could agree to - both, only the Godzilla movies alone and all Toho sci-fi/fantasy/mystery movies do/can have its own lists/templates/categories alone, as in List of Godzilla movies and List of Toho Sci-Fi movies, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.90.74.192 (talk) 06:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)